Worst way to find out
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27-08-2015, 10:25 AM (This post was last modified: 27-08-2015 10:39 AM by Mr. Boston.)
RE: Worst way to find out
It always breaks my heart when I see people faced with choosing their children or their comforting illusions making the wrong choice. Hang in there buddy. I love my two sons more than anything. There is NOTHING they could tell me about who they are or what they believe that would make me stop loving them.
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27-08-2015, 10:41 AM
RE: Worst way to find out
(27-08-2015 10:25 AM)Mr. Boston Wrote:  It always breaks my heart when I see people faced with choosing their children or their comforting illusions making the wrong choice. Hang in there buddy.

Thanks. Yeah and the worst thing is I don't want them to make that choice. I've told them so many times now that they're free to believe whatever they want that I should make it my email signature. I'm not the one telling them what to accept or not. But apparently they can't live and let live. And if it does come to that point then I'm sure in their mind it will be my fault (or Satan's, but same thing I guess).
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27-08-2015, 11:07 AM
RE: Worst way to find out
(27-08-2015 09:53 AM)gnarlynewt Wrote:  Update (if anyone cares). Definitely NOT getting to the point where they're coming around yet. My mom's emails went to emotional pleas, over the top preaching, and guilt trips. After trying to as gently as possible to bring it back around into some resemblance of rational discourse, I gave her some time after just getting more of the same about how much of a disappointment I am. It's a little irritating that I'm the one accused of being hurtful when that's all she's throwing in my face, apparently it's ok if she's hurtful 'cause Jebus. My dad has been worryingly silent. He's always been the more conservative religious one. Then I got an email from him this morning. Funny how I have no problem arguing with fundamentalists online, but just seeing an email from my dad in my inbox causes my heart to skip a beat. But I was actually sort of excited that it was full of questions and it seemed he wanted to understand. Even though some of the questions were stuff that usually grates on me, like "where do your morals come from" or "how can you not see and experience god in his creation", but I was actually happy to explain things for him and I know this is all new for him. Good thing I started writing a response to his questions before I finished reading the whole email, because it went off the rails quicker than you can say the devil made me do it. The last two paragraphs were just accusing me of being influenced by Satan and how he'll never accept my being an atheist because it's letting the devil win and he's "declaring war on Satan" and I'm destroying my life by rebelling etc etc. And apparently this is worse than if I was a drug addict. As someone who has had friends' lives destroyed by drugs I found that sort of bullshit enraging, especially as I have my shit pretty together (and they were remarking on how together I was only a week ago). I kept it civil, but made it clear that if this was going to be a one way conversation to reconvert me through attempts at emotional manipulation and calling me an evil disappointment controlled by Satan then this conversation is over. I'm more than happy having a heated discussion, but attacks on my character and no attempt at a mutual exchange of ideas is not a discussion. It's not really exaggerating that each email seems to end with a version of "the power of Christ compels you!" I'm not sure how possible it is to have a real discussion with emotionally charged fundamentalist parents, I know others have done it so I guess there's hope, but fuck this is exhausting. I just want to go on living my life, but apparently that's too much to ask. Banjo's "fuck them" comment is getting more appealing by the minute.

Anyways, end rant. Thank you all for the supportive comments, it's been helpful to just waste time hanging out here lately even if I'm too drained from family shit to feel like I can contribute much right now.

Oh my godlessness! Your dad is fucking nuts! I can see why it would be draining. "letting the devil win"??? Dad, there is no devil in science and reason. If it is any consolation, I don't even believe in the devil...

Sorry there is no apparent end in sight. Keep us posted with updates.
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27-08-2015, 11:23 AM
RE: Worst way to find out
*cough*

Quote:(Matthew 10:35-37) Jesus:
For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. And a person's enemies will be those of his own household. Whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me, and whoever loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
***

Not your fault, nor is it your problem that your parents haven't cracked the books on their shelves. You are the one who will be living your life... they have to live for themselves.

Welcome to adulthood and the forum. Smile

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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27-08-2015, 01:44 PM
RE: Worst way to find out
I have been through every one of those conversations. It's hard for people who have not experienced what true fundamentalism does to a person's mind to grasp that a parent could see their child as an agent of Satan or speak to them as you are.

Sadly, I have had that conversation with my own, almost word for word, and unfortunately it took ten years of me being away (and during which time both my siblings also cut off contact for the most part) before they really took a look at the crazy shit they were saying. They have since apologized (though not renounced the crazy parts of their faith), and our relationship is doing better every day.

I admire the maturity with which you handled your parents, both. Good responses.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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27-08-2015, 04:10 PM
RE: Worst way to find out
(27-08-2015 01:44 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  I have been through every one of those conversations. It's hard for people who have not experienced what true fundamentalism does to a person's mind to grasp that a parent could see their child as an agent of Satan or speak to them as you are.

Sadly, I have had that conversation with my own, almost word for word, and unfortunately it took ten years of me being away (and during which time both my siblings also cut off contact for the most part) before they really took a look at the crazy shit they were saying. They have since apologized (though not renounced the crazy parts of their faith), and our relationship is doing better every day.

I admire the maturity with which you handled your parents, both. Good responses.

Wow, thank you so much, you don't know how much your saying that means to me.

I knew that my parents had some fundamentalist leanings (young earth creationism for example), but this experience has really shown me just how much more fundamentalist they are than I had realized. I was prepared to hear things like I'm "deceived", but to be speaking to me as if they were performing an exorcism is hard to wrap my head around, and as I used to be a fundamentalist myself I know they aren't using such language lightly.

It's a little daunting to imagine this going on for 10 years. But I'm glad you were able to mend some of your relationship, especially after all that time. If you don't mind my asking, was it your parents who cut you off or did you when they didn't stop with the bullshit? Or maybe it was sort of mutual?

Thanks again, it's refreshing beyond words to have some encouragement from people who can understand what I'm going through.
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27-08-2015, 04:14 PM
RE: Worst way to find out
(27-08-2015 11:07 AM)Iñigo Wrote:  
(27-08-2015 09:53 AM)gnarlynewt Wrote:  Update (if anyone cares). Definitely NOT getting to the point where they're coming around yet. My mom's emails went to emotional pleas, over the top preaching, and guilt trips. After trying to as gently as possible to bring it back around into some resemblance of rational discourse, I gave her some time after just getting more of the same about how much of a disappointment I am. It's a little irritating that I'm the one accused of being hurtful when that's all she's throwing in my face, apparently it's ok if she's hurtful 'cause Jebus. My dad has been worryingly silent. He's always been the more conservative religious one. Then I got an email from him this morning. Funny how I have no problem arguing with fundamentalists online, but just seeing an email from my dad in my inbox causes my heart to skip a beat. But I was actually sort of excited that it was full of questions and it seemed he wanted to understand. Even though some of the questions were stuff that usually grates on me, like "where do your morals come from" or "how can you not see and experience god in his creation", but I was actually happy to explain things for him and I know this is all new for him. Good thing I started writing a response to his questions before I finished reading the whole email, because it went off the rails quicker than you can say the devil made me do it. The last two paragraphs were just accusing me of being influenced by Satan and how he'll never accept my being an atheist because it's letting the devil win and he's "declaring war on Satan" and I'm destroying my life by rebelling etc etc. And apparently this is worse than if I was a drug addict. As someone who has had friends' lives destroyed by drugs I found that sort of bullshit enraging, especially as I have my shit pretty together (and they were remarking on how together I was only a week ago). I kept it civil, but made it clear that if this was going to be a one way conversation to reconvert me through attempts at emotional manipulation and calling me an evil disappointment controlled by Satan then this conversation is over. I'm more than happy having a heated discussion, but attacks on my character and no attempt at a mutual exchange of ideas is not a discussion. It's not really exaggerating that each email seems to end with a version of "the power of Christ compels you!" I'm not sure how possible it is to have a real discussion with emotionally charged fundamentalist parents, I know others have done it so I guess there's hope, but fuck this is exhausting. I just want to go on living my life, but apparently that's too much to ask. Banjo's "fuck them" comment is getting more appealing by the minute.

Anyways, end rant. Thank you all for the supportive comments, it's been helpful to just waste time hanging out here lately even if I'm too drained from family shit to feel like I can contribute much right now.

Oh my godlessness! Your dad is fucking nuts! I can see why it would be draining. "letting the devil win"??? Dad, there is no devil in science and reason. If it is any consolation, I don't even believe in the devil...

Sorry there is no apparent end in sight. Keep us posted with updates.

haha, I knew he was pretty hard line in his beliefs, never thought of him as nuts. But when you put it like that, yeah, he's acting pretty fucking nuts.
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27-08-2015, 04:22 PM
RE: Worst way to find out
(27-08-2015 11:23 AM)kim Wrote:  *cough*

Quote:(Matthew 10:35-37) Jesus:
For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. And a person's enemies will be those of his own household. Whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me, and whoever loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
***

Not your fault, nor is it your problem that your parents haven't cracked the books on their shelves. You are the one who will be living your life... they have to live for themselves.

Welcome to adulthood and the forum. Smile

Thanks. I always thought that Jesus quote was fucked up, now I definitely know how fucked up it is. Part of me knows what you're saying is true, but the other part of me wonders if I couldn't handle things differently. But I have a bad habit of second guessing myself.

I had enough of adulthood even before this, when's retirement? Smile
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27-08-2015, 04:42 PM
RE: Worst way to find out
(27-08-2015 10:41 AM)gnarlynewt Wrote:  
(27-08-2015 10:25 AM)Mr. Boston Wrote:  It always breaks my heart when I see people faced with choosing their children or their comforting illusions making the wrong choice. Hang in there buddy.

Thanks. Yeah and the worst thing is I don't want them to make that choice. I've told them so many times now that they're free to believe whatever they want that I should make it my email signature. I'm not the one telling them what to accept or not. But apparently they can't live and let live. And if it does come to that point then I'm sure in their mind it will be my fault (or Satan's, but same thing I guess).

Oh man. I really wish I could help. You seem like such a decent bloke.

Thinking of you mate. Dale.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
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27-08-2015, 08:00 PM
RE: Worst way to find out
so you arent going to change their worldview, nor they change yours. So change the topic, ask about those bazillion other things that go on in their life.

arguing who is right/wrong will get you nowhere. If it were me, I might apologize for keeping it from them, for the way they found out, for the hurt feelings. And then just dont discuss it any further, when the topic comes round just say "we have already discussed that, I dont want to fight with you, I care about and love you, and want to know how you are doing"


do it enough times....10-20-30-50-100..... and eventually it will sink in.


no more hiding anything.


"Life is a daring adventure or it is nothing"--Helen Keller
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