Worst way to find out
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27-08-2015, 08:03 PM
RE: Worst way to find out
Here is your Dr Phil moment "do you want to be right? Or do you want to be happy?"

there comes a time when you just walk away from fighting over certain topics.


"Life is a daring adventure or it is nothing"--Helen Keller
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27-08-2015, 08:32 PM
RE: Worst way to find out
Newt, I found this place when my own parents finally confronted me about my lack of faith, at 52 years of age! I feel for you and know what you are going through.

Just got off the phone with my mother a few minutes ago, she always ends the conversations with stuff like, “may God bless you and keep you safe” and “I’ll pray for you”. It has taken three long, painful years for my parents not to go into a spiraling rage or a self-pity rant about my non-belief. Now I just endure these harmless chants and change the subject.

It takes time. They are scared for your mortal soul and will do and say anything to keep you from their version of hell while putting you through a real hell here and now. Ironic stuff.

Be patient and don’t let them manipulate you. Hopefully they’ll come around soon.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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27-08-2015, 08:35 PM (This post was last modified: 27-08-2015 08:39 PM by RocketSurgeon76.)
RE: Worst way to find out
(27-08-2015 04:10 PM)gnarlynewt Wrote:  
(27-08-2015 01:44 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  I have been through every one of those conversations. It's hard for people who have not experienced what true fundamentalism does to a person's mind to grasp that a parent could see their child as an agent of Satan or speak to them as you are.

Sadly, I have had that conversation with my own, almost word for word, and unfortunately it took ten years of me being away (and during which time both my siblings also cut off contact for the most part) before they really took a look at the crazy shit they were saying. They have since apologized (though not renounced the crazy parts of their faith), and our relationship is doing better every day.

I admire the maturity with which you handled your parents, both. Good responses.

Wow, thank you so much, you don't know how much your saying that means to me.

I knew that my parents had some fundamentalist leanings (young earth creationism for example), but this experience has really shown me just how much more fundamentalist they are than I had realized. I was prepared to hear things like I'm "deceived", but to be speaking to me as if they were performing an exorcism is hard to wrap my head around, and as I used to be a fundamentalist myself I know they aren't using such language lightly.

It's a little daunting to imagine this going on for 10 years. But I'm glad you were able to mend some of your relationship, especially after all that time. If you don't mind my asking, was it your parents who cut you off or did you when they didn't stop with the bullshit? Or maybe it was sort of mutual?

Thanks again, it's refreshing beyond words to have some encouragement from people who can understand what I'm going through.

Mainly it was me. I just realized it was toxic, and they said some things (already described) which I considered to be inexcusable. I told them when they were ready to apologize, I'd forgive them... partly, that was a paraphrase of what they were telling me about apologizing for what I said in counter to when they cornered me with our pastor and tried to give me a "talking to", and I was already knowledgeable enough to call BS on 99% of what they were saying (they acted like I was being "defiant", rather than acknowledging that I could point to page and line of the science books that proved they were lying to me).

I spent five years without contact after they finally drew an ultimatum (at age 17), saying "if you live under our roof you will go to church". Easily fixed.

At 22, I tried to re-establish contact, but they had simply switched to the more subtle emotional manipulation methods, as well as trying to deluge me with apologist literature. Unfortunately for them, by then I was about to graduate with a biology degree, so I took one of their anti-evolution books (Darwin on Trial by lawyer Phillip Johnson) and debunked it, cover-to-cover, as sort of a graduation exercise, complete with margin- and foot-notes and a detailed references bibliography in the back. This time, it was they who declared they thought I was a bad influence, "lost" and "satanic", and so on, and we kind of mutually moved apart for another five years, after that.

Contact was re-established after I had my son, and my Beloved insisted that our son would know his grandparents. After making contact, I found out that my siblings had similarly told my parents "shut up or we're abandoning you, too", my sister having become a Wiccan/Pagan and my brother an, in his words, "Ijustdontgiveafuckist". Unfortunately, the effect of the fragmentation was permanent, and my siblings see me as having abandoned them, so despite rebuilding some of the relationship with my folks, my siblings don't really talk to me, and barely to one another, living hours apart, each of us. Sad

I made it clear that my new relationship with them was conditioned on being respectful. Apparently, it finally sank in that they had lost all three children to their religious insanity, and they have lost a lot of the arrogance that comes with ideology.

Ah, the "power of Christ". Rolleyes

I hope it all goes better for you. You have a big advantage, I think, in not starting this process during your teenage years, with younger siblings in the home.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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27-08-2015, 08:43 PM
RE: Worst way to find out
(27-08-2015 08:35 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  
(27-08-2015 04:10 PM)gnarlynewt Wrote:  Wow, thank you so much, you don't know how much your saying that means to me.

I knew that my parents had some fundamentalist leanings (young earth creationism for example), but this experience has really shown me just how much more fundamentalist they are than I had realized. I was prepared to hear things like I'm "deceived", but to be speaking to me as if they were performing an exorcism is hard to wrap my head around, and as I used to be a fundamentalist myself I know they aren't using such language lightly.

It's a little daunting to imagine this going on for 10 years. But I'm glad you were able to mend some of your relationship, especially after all that time. If you don't mind my asking, was it your parents who cut you off or did you when they didn't stop with the bullshit? Or maybe it was sort of mutual?

Thanks again, it's refreshing beyond words to have some encouragement from people who can understand what I'm going through.

Mainly it was me. I just realized it was toxic, and they said some things (already described) which I considered to be inexcusable. I told them when they were ready to apologize, I'd forgive them... partly, that was a paraphrase of what they were telling me about apologizing for what I said in counter to when they cornered me with our pastor and tried to give me a "talking to", and I was already knowledgeable enough to call BS on 99% of what they were saying (they acted like I was being "defiant", rather than acknowledging that I could point to page and line of the science books that proved they were lying to me).

I spent five years without contact after they finally drew an ultimatum (at age 17), saying "if you live under our roof you will go to church". Easily fixed.

At 22, I tried to re-establish contact, but they had simply switched to the more subtle emotional manipulation methods, as well as trying to deluge me with apologist literature. Unfortunately for them, by then I was about to graduate with a biology degree, so I took one of their anti-evolution books (Darwin on Trial by lawyer Phillip Johnson) and debunked it, cover-to-cover, as sort of a graduation exercise, complete with margin- and foot-notes and a detailed references bibliography in the back. This time, it was they who declared they thought I was a bad influence, "lost" and "satanic", and so on, and we kind of mutually moved apart for another five years, after that.

Contact was re-established after I had my son, and my Beloved insisted that our son would know his grandparents. After making contact, I found out that my siblings had similarly told my parents "shut up or we're abandoning you, too", my sister having become a Wiccan/Pagan and my brother an, in his words, "Ijustdontgiveafuckist". Unfortunately, the effect of the fragmentation was permanent, and my siblings see me as having abandoned them, so despite rebuilding some of the relationship with my folks, my siblings don't really talk to me, and barely to one another, living hours apart, each of us. Sad

I made it clear that my new relationship with them was conditioned on being respectful. Apparently, it finally sank in that they had lost all three children to their religious insanity, and they have lost a lot of the arrogance that comes with ideology.

Ah, the "power of Christ". Rolleyes

I hope it all goes better for you. You have a big advantage, I think, in not starting this process during your teenage years, with younger siblings in the home.

Holy shit RS, that is fucked up...and all in the name of Jeebus. Facepalm

I am the eldest of 4 siblings and I also was held accountable for “abandoning” them because of similar shit, our bond was never the same afterwards. It has waxed and waned over the years but we seldom talk nowadays. Sad really but unavoidable.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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