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28-03-2012, 05:46 PM
RE: Worthy Christian Forums
(28-03-2012 05:42 PM)gdemoss Wrote:  Thanks for the welcome. To clarify how I use a word like 'hate', I only mean to show lack of preference for.

I hate you already. Wink

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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28-03-2012, 06:01 PM
RE: Worthy Christian Forums
I finally got around to checking out these forums today, and didn't even complete the registration. Did you guys notice this gem in the terms & conditions?
Quote:You may not post any material that is disrespectful of God, Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit, or the Bible. This includes user names or anything in your profile, or sig. (Ex. 20:7)
And I most certainly intended to post material that is disrespectful of God, Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit, and most definitely the Bible. So I went no further.
Everyone has the right to free speech here and very rarely is someone censored or excluded. Hell, even Egor gets to post here and he pisses everyone off. That's one of the reasons that I love this forum and would not waste my time with the "worthy" christian forums.

My girlfriend is mad at me. Perhaps I shouldn't have tried cooking a stick in her non-stick pan.
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28-03-2012, 06:06 PM
RE: Worthy Christian Forums
To be fair I questioned that when I signed up. It's very unclear. I didn't know whether it meant you couldn't claim God didn't exist or whether it simply meant you couldn't make derogatory comments.


I was told that I could openly state my beliefs (such as God not existing or Jesus being unnecessary) as long I wasn't derogatory about it. I didn't have a problem with that and they never pulled me up for any of my posts.

Best and worst of Ferdinand .....
Best
Ferdinand: We don't really say 'theist' in Alabama. Here, you're either a Christian, or you're from Afghanistan and we fucking hate you.
Worst
Ferdinand: Everyone from British is so, like, fucking retarded.
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28-03-2012, 06:12 PM
RE: Worthy Christian Forums
(28-03-2012 05:07 PM)gdemoss Wrote:  Zero contribution of content: So your saying that you saw nothing of value in it? I wouldn't expect an atheist too.
I think you have a predetermined vision of what an atheist is in your head... dare I say "prejudice"? But you're likely correct about seeing lack of value. We don't find much value in what many Christians say, because their worldview makes communication difficult. There are different views on what constitutes evidence, what defines an atheist or Christian, and fair play. I mentioned fair play just a moment ago in my post up there. I hope you'll take it to heart, especially if you honestly welcome debate.
(28-03-2012 05:07 PM)gdemoss Wrote:  What I was saying was simply that many profess to believe but don't act like it.
Are you familiar with the phrase "no true Scotsman"?
(28-03-2012 05:07 PM)gdemoss Wrote:  I would be glad to dialog on the subject with you but I don't expect you to have a desire to.

Gary
And there we are with the predetermined conclusion about atheists again. I don't expect that you've spent much time in a forum like this, but debate and arguments are not only welcome here but often desired. We like getting different points of view, especially when they come from someone who doesn't appear to have had much experience speaking to actual, real-life atheists. Post any time you like on any topic you like.

My girlfriend is mad at me. Perhaps I shouldn't have tried cooking a stick in her non-stick pan.
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28-03-2012, 06:38 PM
RE: Worthy Christian Forums
(28-03-2012 06:12 PM)Starcrash Wrote:  
(28-03-2012 05:07 PM)gdemoss Wrote:  Zero contribution of content: So your saying that you saw nothing of value in it? I wouldn't expect an atheist too.
I think you have a predetermined vision of what an atheist is in your head... dare I say "prejudice"? But you're likely correct about seeing lack of value. We don't find much value in what many Christians say, because their worldview makes communication difficult. There are different views on what constitutes evidence, what defines an atheist or Christian, and fair play. I mentioned fair play just a moment ago in my post up there. I hope you'll take it to heart, especially if you honestly welcome debate.
(28-03-2012 05:07 PM)gdemoss Wrote:  What I was saying was simply that many profess to believe but don't act like it.
Are you familiar with the phrase "no true Scotsman"?
(28-03-2012 05:07 PM)gdemoss Wrote:  I would be glad to dialog on the subject with you but I don't expect you to have a desire to.

Gary
And there we are with the predetermined conclusion about atheists again. I don't expect that you've spent much time in a forum like this, but debate and arguments are not only welcome here but often desired. We like getting different points of view, especially when they come from someone who doesn't appear to have had much experience speaking to actual, real-life atheists. Post any time you like on any topic you like.
I'm sorry, I didn't mean to make you think I was addressing all atheist in my post. I was addressing the individual poster. I used to be an atheist. Not an educated one but rather one just out of lack of a desire to know period.

No True Scotsman. Nope. Just learned from you today and Google to find answer. I don't see where this applies to my statement though. According to the bible (which is the only source acceptable to define Christianity as I have no right to define it myself) A Christian is one who believes in and follows Christ as Lord. There are many who believe but do not follow.

I am open to dialog with those who wish to. The poster who addressed me didn't seem to have a genuine desire to do so. Only to point out that they saw no value in what I said. I can open many numerous books on things such as molecular biology and not understand what I am reading, but it doesn't mean that there is no value in what was written.

Peace,

Gary
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28-03-2012, 06:43 PM (This post was last modified: 28-03-2012 06:50 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Worthy Christian Forums
(28-03-2012 06:01 PM)Starcrash Wrote:  I finally got around to checking out these forums today, and didn't even complete the registration. Did you guys notice this gem in the terms & conditions?
Quote:You may not post any material that is disrespectful of God, Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit, or the Bible. This includes user names or anything in your profile, or sig. (Ex. 20:7)
And I most certainly intended to post material that is disrespectful of God, Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit, and most definitely the Bible. So I went no further.


Never got that far 'cause there's no sensible reason for me to look to enlist over there, but it's clear you're signing up to a church. ... whole goddam organization of their website looks like a church with all sort of inner sanctums and outer sanctums and locked confessionals and what not.

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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28-03-2012, 06:57 PM
RE: Worthy Christian Forums
Gdemoss,

I was looking at your bible quote, and it lists all these nasty attributes in men, and in the middle of them is "incontinent".

I would assume there is a different meaning than the medical one, because blaming people for incontinence makes little sense.

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Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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28-03-2012, 07:01 PM
RE: Worthy Christian Forums
(28-03-2012 06:38 PM)gdemoss Wrote:  No True Scotsman. Nope. Just learned from you today and Google to find answer. I don't see where this applies to my statement though. According to the bible (which is the only source acceptable to define Christianity as I have no right to define it myself) A Christian is one who believes in and follows Christ as Lord. There are many who believe but do not follow.

I am open to dialog with those who wish to. The poster who addressed me didn't seem to have a genuine desire to do so. Only to point out that they saw no value in what I said. I can open many numerous books on things such as molecular biology and not understand what I am reading, but it doesn't mean that there is no value in what was written.
I agree with you that a Christian is one who believes in and follows Christ as Lord. That seems to be straightforward from the text (believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved). But there are many Christians who disagree about how one "believes" and even more so is the disagreement over how one "follows"... there's not just the scripture, but personal interpretation of the scripture. I posted about this recently if you're interested.

And I'm glad that you're open to dialog. It appears to be true, and that makes me very happy. An "echo chamber" is not educational or stimulating, so it's always nice to have different points of view. And that brings me to "value"... a book entitled "molecular biology" that is filled with reference material on automotive repair does not have very much value to someone who was looking for molecular biology. I hope you don't think that we dismiss the value of what a Christian has to say just because a Christian says it (that's Ad Hominem, to say the least) but the differences in our worldviews over what constitutes a "good" or "strong" argument may make us question an argument's value. Christians don't generally come to believe in God because they've been won over by the evidence, but rather because of upbringing, culture, peer pressure, and need for a group to belong to --- the same things that drive people to believe in absurd things like Scientology. These aren't the same things that drive us to believe in things like... I don't know... molecular biology. So Christians don't usually convince us with arguments that won them over --- no evidence or arguments were required in their case. So you can see how we find little value in the general things that they (and probably you) value as "convincing".

My girlfriend is mad at me. Perhaps I shouldn't have tried cooking a stick in her non-stick pan.
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28-03-2012, 07:05 PM (This post was last modified: 28-03-2012 07:21 PM by gdemoss.)
RE: Worthy Christian Forums
(28-03-2012 06:57 PM)Dom Wrote:  Gdemoss,

I was looking at your bible quote, and it lists all these nasty attributes in men, and in the middle of them is "incontinent".

I would assume there is a different meaning than the medical one, because blaming people for incontinence makes little sense.
Yes, incontinent in today's vernacular is much different than that of a couple hundred years ago.

INCON'TINENT, a. [L. incontinens.] Not restraining the passions or appetites, particularly the sexual appetite; indulging lust without restraint or in violation of law; unchaste; lewd. (Websters 1828)

Gary



(28-03-2012 07:01 PM)Starcrash Wrote:  
(28-03-2012 06:38 PM)gdemoss Wrote:  No True Scotsman. Nope. Just learned from you today and Google to find answer. I don't see where this applies to my statement though. According to the bible (which is the only source acceptable to define Christianity as I have no right to define it myself) A Christian is one who believes in and follows Christ as Lord. There are many who believe but do not follow.

I am open to dialog with those who wish to. The poster who addressed me didn't seem to have a genuine desire to do so. Only to point out that they saw no value in what I said. I can open many numerous books on things such as molecular biology and not understand what I am reading, but it doesn't mean that there is no value in what was written.
I agree with you that a Christian is one who believes in and follows Christ as Lord. That seems to be straightforward from the text (believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved). But there are many Christians who disagree about how one "believes" and even more so is the disagreement over how one "follows"... there's not just the scripture, but personal interpretation of the scripture. I posted about this recently if you're interested.

And I'm glad that you're open to dialog. It appears to be true, and that makes me very happy. An "echo chamber" is not educational or stimulating, so it's always nice to have different points of view. And that brings me to "value"... a book entitled "molecular biology" that is filled with reference material on automotive repair does not have very much value to someone who was looking for molecular biology. I hope you don't think that we dismiss the value of what a Christian has to say just because a Christian says it (that's Ad Hominem, to say the least) but the differences in our worldviews over what constitutes a "good" or "strong" argument may make us question an argument's value. Christians don't generally come to believe in God because they've been won over by the evidence, but rather because of upbringing, culture, peer pressure, and need for a group to belong to --- the same things that drive people to believe in absurd things like Scientology. These aren't the same things that drive us to believe in things like... I don't know... molecular biology. So Christians don't usually convince us with arguments that won them over --- no evidence or arguments were required in their case. So you can see how we find little value in the general things that they (and probably you) value as "convincing".
Was he looking for molecular biology and finding automotive? The key is in the fact that I was speaking in a language he didn't understand, god-speak as he called it. It is more akin to a man seeking to learn molecular biology only to open the book and found it written in Chinese when he is English. The things I said had 'value', just not value recognizable to someone who doesn't know the language. All of what I wrote has to be understood within the confines of the contexts from which I was speaking unto Christians in a biblical manner. I just have a hard time thinking that the poster was actually looking for value in the first place, and that is OK. I wasn't seeking to convince him of anything. I was addressing Worthy.

I believe when you say evidence, you refer to empirical evidence. That to which any 'thinking' atheist requires in order to believe something? My belief in God came from what I consider empirical evidence or that which is observed or experienced and not on social pressure, culture, upbringing or need to belong to a group. The only reason I am sound in my faith is because I have had a lot of what I consider 'evidence' to believe.

I am going to go have a look at the topic you gave and maybe I'll see you there.

Gary
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28-03-2012, 07:21 PM
RE: Worthy Christian Forums
(28-03-2012 07:05 PM)gdemoss Wrote:  Yes, incontinent in today's vernacular is much different than that of a couple hundred years ago.

INCON'TINENT, a. [L. incontinens.] Not restraining the passions or appetites, particularly the sexual appetite; indulging lust without restraint or in violation of law; unchaste; lewd. (Websters 1828)

Gary


Thanks. That one just jumped out at me, it had to have a different meaning. It's still leaking, just leaking from the penis lol. Makes sense, linguistically that is.

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Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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