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28-03-2012, 07:37 PM
RE: Worthy Christian Forums
(28-03-2012 05:07 PM)gdemoss Wrote:  
(28-03-2012 02:06 PM)kineo Wrote:  Haha, yeah- that's a good one. Big Grin

I read this post and let me tell you, it's as clear as mud:


Seriously this post is full of god-speak like no other. We have:received message from God personally; current church is the end times church (every generation says this and have been since year 1); Bible prophecy with a description of the times vague enough that it can be interpreted to point to any point in history; paranoia; persection/tribulation. All of these words and there really is zero contribution of content in this post- even knowing and understanding what the guy is saying.

Gary- wtf are you saying man? It's the end times and Christians can expect to suffer? Even IF that were true, what is the relevance to the discussion?

This isn't meant to mock- but to highlight really how this language sounds holy but says nothing of value.
Hi, thought I'd drop in to see how atheist who are not limited by moderation of our forum think of what they see when they read what we write. It was nice to come and actually see someone quoting me and critiquing what I said. I decided to sign up for an account when I saw that I was addressed with the question "what are you saying?"

I wouldn't expect you to find anything of value in what I was saying to other believers. What we believe makes no sense to someone who doesn't believe. We live in a world where there are countless different groups of people who claim to believe the bible but in truth only believe some subjective personal interpretation of the text instead of an objective acceptance of what is taught followed by a genuine response of conformity to it.

I especially loved your comment about god-speak, which was followed by your reaction to what I wrote. Of course I seem to be like a long history of people who believed they were living in the 'last days' as this is what is taught in scripture, albeit there is no way to know exactly when the end of this age will come. It is true that since the very beginning of Christianity every generation thought that they would probably be last and each of them successively passed away without being the last. I understand how absurd it appears. I don't blame you for thinking that a guy is whacked out who looks at all those generations who thought they were and were not, and then gets in line to be the next one who thinks that it will be them.

We Have: Received message from God personally. While I understand how it may appear that I was saying God spoke to me personally on the issue, I merely meant that it was something I came to understand while reading the bible. It is how God 'speaks' to me. God has never showed up on my doorstep to sip coffee man.

Zero contribution of content: So your saying that you saw nothing of value in it? I wouldn't expect an atheist too. Since the beginning of Christianity not much has changed. Those who actually believe and follow the bible almost have more to worry about inside of the church than they do outside of the church. Atheists and others mainly think true believers are nuts and don't bother us much but those who hold to a false view of Christianity despise true believers and seek to rid themselves of them in any manner they can, especially in the name of religion.

Let me write in in plain English instead of the god-speak, so to speak.

There was a desire from some at this forum to debate over at worthy. Things went bad and people were banned from the forum, which is expected. I came to find a thread on the subject and thought it best to clarify using the bible. What I was saying was simply that many profess to believe but don't act like it. Instead they resemble what Paul told Timothy the ever illusive 'last days church' would be like. I brought out other things from the bible that show that even from the start these problems were present. And things have not changed. If the bible is true then anyone who actually believes and follows it will be hated by those who don't as well as those who say they do but twist what it says to their own personal liking. I believe that my warning to them was pertinent to the conversation at hand. Maybe you don't. OK.

I would be glad to dialog on the subject with you but I don't expect you to have a desire to.

Gary

Gary! Welcome! Thank you for coming and responding- and of course I want a dialogue. I'm glad you were willing to come by and have open conversation- I honestly did not expect that. I had figured that everyone had abandoned the thread and written us off.

I use the term god-speak to refer specifically to the style of speaking that prevails in Christian culture in the US today. It's not just the "amen"s and the "praise God"s, but a very verbose way of speaking that often adds little actual help. As I mentioned in a prior post, there is a lot of echo in the WCF thread with the message of "We really need to look at how we act as the message of Christ to non-believers!". But almost no one volunteering, "Hey, that thing I said was way off the mark" or "You know, I really ought to look again at how I treat gay people" or "Perhaps my preconceptions of atheists needs a little improvement." I think that much of the reason for the overreaction by WCF is due to preconception. Once you (in the general sense, not you specifically) learned that these people were atheists or associated with atheists- game over. Everything they said was then lambasted as dishonest. And that's just not the case- aside from the mathematician, who I think had apologized. Preconceived notions about who atheists are (liars, thieves, sinners, angry, pretentious little people who hate Christians and everything they stand for) resulted in the almost complete end of discussion. There were a few of you folks who are willing to try to look past their preconceived notions. As am I.

Once you step out of the Christian bubble, talking becomes much more relaxed, far less nuanced, and in my opinion- more fruitful. What you said in your post here in plain English only vaguely matches the way you said it in god-speak. But maybe that's because I've been out of the bubble for nearly 10 years now (though only an admitted atheist for the last year or so).

I have to say though, you're spot on about those in the church being the biggest enemies of themselves. One of the biggest reasons for my initial separation from the church was from rather lousy interactions with other Christians- most especially a leader who was looked highly upon while I was in the Master's Commission program. I'll spare you the details unless you actually care (in the thread on the WCF boards someone had specifically stated that they do not believe atheists stories about bad church experiences because they are mostly made up Shocking ).

(28-03-2012 06:38 PM)gdemoss Wrote:  I am open to dialog with those who wish to. The poster who addressed me didn't seem to have a genuine desire to do so.

Please, you'll have to forgive me- I haven't yet mastered the art of instantaneous travel from work to home. I'm working on it, but I've reached a ceiling in speed, above which travel becomes unsafe. Drinking Beverage
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28-03-2012, 07:45 PM
RE: Worthy Christian Forums
I knew the difference but since I am actually incontinent I still thought you mean me? Even though I'm not a man =p

I'm not a non believer, I believe in the possibility of anything. I just don't let the actuality of something be determined by a 3rd party.
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29-03-2012, 05:05 AM
RE: Worthy Christian Forums
AnotherSinner,

(I hope you read this)

I'm sorry all this has upset you, I feel bad now.

I know WCF hasn't left the best of impressions on several of the people here but I've said from the start there were many positives to the forum. The people were welcoming and friendly, mostly the debates were reasonable and didn't descend into the 'you're wrong, I'm right' style and there clearly seems to be a reasonably sized group of non-believers on the site. All that counts for something.

Sure WCF has it's downsides (such as the segregation and being so quick to ban) but, as your beliefs will attest to, no-one on Earth is perfect.

My advice is to speak your mind on what you don't agree with but don't let the negatives make you lose sight of the positives. Always keep those positives to the forefront of your mind. Remember, the place must be doing something right or I wouldn't have been so disappointed to be banned.

If you ever fancy a chat then feel free to sign up and PM me. I know we've been portrayed as a bunch of feral creatures looking for people to troll simply for amusement but I promise you it isn't the case.

All the best and sorry for upsetting you once again.

Best and worst of Ferdinand .....
Best
Ferdinand: We don't really say 'theist' in Alabama. Here, you're either a Christian, or you're from Afghanistan and we fucking hate you.
Worst
Ferdinand: Everyone from British is so, like, fucking retarded.
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29-03-2012, 07:35 AM
RE: Worthy Christian Forums
I instantly gain respect for any WCF member who has the kahunas to come over here and not hide behind retarded censorship.

Much respect, Gary!

All you other WCF guys could learn a thing or two from him.

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29-03-2012, 11:13 AM
RE: Worthy Christian Forums
Nebula,

Sorry to contradict you but I did not start the homosexuality thread to antagonise, I started it because the topic of discrimination is something I feel strongly on, whether it be women, blacks or gays. Did I think it would be contentious? Yeah, from what I've heard Christians generally don't smile upon gay marriage. But just because I suspected it would controversial doesn't mean that was my motivation for starting it.

I'll also point out that I totally understand you having a section where atheists can't post where you can discuss your faith with purely other Christians and post prayers. I don't understand why atheists are banned from the casual threads (hobbies, jokes etc.).

Best and worst of Ferdinand .....
Best
Ferdinand: We don't really say 'theist' in Alabama. Here, you're either a Christian, or you're from Afghanistan and we fucking hate you.
Worst
Ferdinand: Everyone from British is so, like, fucking retarded.
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29-03-2012, 11:24 AM
RE: Worthy Christian Forums
I thought that their thread was closed. Is there another through which they are communicating to you?
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29-03-2012, 11:26 AM
RE: Worthy Christian Forums
(29-03-2012 11:24 AM)kineo Wrote:  I thought that their thread was closed. Is there another through which they are communicating to you?
Kinda.

AnotherSinner made a second thread in the General Discussion section yesterday called Worthy Christians - What Does It Mean.

Best and worst of Ferdinand .....
Best
Ferdinand: We don't really say 'theist' in Alabama. Here, you're either a Christian, or you're from Afghanistan and we fucking hate you.
Worst
Ferdinand: Everyone from British is so, like, fucking retarded.
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29-03-2012, 11:31 AM
RE: Worthy Christian Forums
(29-03-2012 11:26 AM)Hughsie Wrote:  
(29-03-2012 11:24 AM)kineo Wrote:  I thought that their thread was closed. Is there another through which they are communicating to you?
Kinda.

AnotherSinner made a second thread in the General Discussion section yesterday called Worthy Christians - What Does It Mean.
Got a linky link for a slacker?

I promise I'll hold my criticisms to myself. Big Grin
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29-03-2012, 11:32 AM
RE: Worthy Christian Forums
(29-03-2012 11:31 AM)kineo Wrote:  Got a linky link for a slacker?

I promise I'll hold my criticisms to myself. Big Grin
I still gotta use an IP anonymizer to access their site. If I send you a link it will send you through that.

Best and worst of Ferdinand .....
Best
Ferdinand: We don't really say 'theist' in Alabama. Here, you're either a Christian, or you're from Afghanistan and we fucking hate you.
Worst
Ferdinand: Everyone from British is so, like, fucking retarded.
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29-03-2012, 11:34 AM
RE: Worthy Christian Forums
(29-03-2012 11:32 AM)Hughsie Wrote:  
(29-03-2012 11:31 AM)kineo Wrote:  Got a linky link for a slacker?

I promise I'll hold my criticisms to myself. Big Grin
I still gotta use an IP anonymizer to access their site. If I send you a link it will send you through that.
Ah, yeah I had forgotten about that. Ok, I can go and find it. Smile
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