Would Heaven even be worth it?
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22-02-2016, 09:21 PM
RE: Would Heaven even be worth it?
(22-02-2016 09:12 PM)Paleophyte Wrote:  It is not possible to Ascend from Hell. Jesus doesn't count what with being god more or less.

Well to be fair, Jesus didn't really go "to" hell. He just kind of rolled down the doors of his air-conditioned limousine and laughed at everyone as he passed by.

If we came from dust, then why is there still dust?
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22-02-2016, 09:33 PM
RE: Would Heaven even be worth it?
(22-02-2016 09:21 PM)cactus Wrote:  
(22-02-2016 09:12 PM)Paleophyte Wrote:  It is not possible to Ascend from Hell. Jesus doesn't count what with being god more or less.

Well to be fair, Jesus didn't really go "to" hell. He just kind of rolled down the doors of his air-conditioned limousine and laughed at everyone as he passed by.

Awww. How Thatcher of him.
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22-02-2016, 09:33 PM
RE: Would Heaven even be worth it?
I think Homer (of the Illiad, not of the Simpson) had the right idea when he had Odysseus turn down immortality, not once but twice, preferring to be reunited with his family instead.
It marks a shift in Greek thinking, in which even heros think twice about living forever

Too bad that Greek idea didn't catch on ...

Your faith is not evidence, your opinion is not fact, and your bias is not wisdom
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22-02-2016, 09:57 PM
RE: Would Heaven even be worth it?
(22-02-2016 08:51 PM)Hobbitgirl Wrote:  I find most christians I know dont think of it as an eternity of just kissing gods ass. To hear them describe it heaven is kind of like just being here on earth, but with nothing bad ever happening, or one big party where they will see all their dogs and family again.

Do I think heaven would be worth it? Hell no. How can you be happy when you know people are suffering for eternity, people you love. If you stop caring for some reason you arent really you anymore, and thats not heaven either. So fuck it.
Correct. When I was an evangelical I was actually told that we would get to explore the whole universe, be involved in all sorts of aspects of running the machinery of heaven so to speak. Of course that's simply pulled out of someone's touche, it has neither Biblical nor any other basis. But it was a tacit admission that sitting on clouds strumming harps is nothing to look forward to. They were willing to portray it however they needed to to make it attractive and a focus for people's hopes and dreams. One time a Sunday School teacher even told a story about a southern kid who asked if there would be fried chicken in heaven. The answer: of course, if you want it.

Then again there's the joke about the old duffer and his wife who die in a car accident and are ushered into their heavenly mansion. When St Peter pointed out the banquet tables full of delicious food, the old guy said, "I can't eat that, it's too rich. Bad for my heart". St Peter says, "You don't understand. This is heaven. You can eat anything you want and it won't harm you or make you fat."

At this the old duffer pitches a fit and starts throwing things. His wife calms him down. "Why Arnold, what on earth has gotten into you?" she asked. The old guy says, "If it weren't for your goddamn bran muffins, we could have been here 10 years ago!!"

My take on all this is that any form of eternal life eventually becomes its own hell unless something is magically done about hedonic tone and a few other realities of the human condition. We're creatures of time. We need a life story arc with a beginning, middle, and yes, an end. Once you get over the inflation that you're immortal and live within your true scope, you find that the promise of heaven is not nearly so compelling and is in fact empty. Not to mention ridiculous.
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22-02-2016, 10:03 PM
RE: Would Heaven even be worth it?
(22-02-2016 08:56 PM)pablo Wrote:  I never really got the heaven thing either. If everything is all hunky-dorey all the time, things cease to be precious to us.
I don't quite agree. I look at it this way. Right now we have this:

Abject misery <==== neutral =======> Total bliss

If we lop off human suffering we have instead:

neutral <=======> Total bliss

Still plenty of contrast to appreciate good, better and best without awful, godawful and hideous in the mix.

Suffering is never ennobling. It always diminishes the sufferer.

The real problem with heaven is that even under ideal conditions I'm pretty sure everyone has a "best used by" date. I have a hard time imagining what one would do after a few hundred years. Even if there aren't bad experiences, I think everyone would eventually reach a point where they wouldn't want to have more experiences.

I find far more comfort these days in the prospect of oblivion, than in the prospect of heaven. Yeah, I'd be in less of a hurry to get there if my life were magical and wonderful at all times, but I think I'd still get there eventually.
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22-02-2016, 10:05 PM (This post was last modified: 23-02-2016 05:35 PM by Anjele.)
RE: Would Heaven even be worth it?
As a kid I pictured the tales of heaven as wandering around on clouds running into people who had died before me and those who would die after.

I didn't have anything else figured out other than it sounded boring. Hanging around waiting for people to die.

No thanks. Undecided

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF

We're all mad here. The Cheshire Cat
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23-02-2016, 01:33 AM
RE: Would Heaven even be worth it?
Heaven don't look particularly interesting to me. I prefer nonexistence.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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23-02-2016, 08:08 AM
RE: Would Heaven even be worth it?
Spend eternity as Falwell's roommate? Give me some kerosene and a match, I'll burn myself.

Don't let those gnomes and their illusions get you down. They're just gnomes and illusions.

--Jake the Dog, Adventure Time

Alouette, je te plumerai.
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23-02-2016, 08:35 AM
RE: Would Heaven even be worth it?
(22-02-2016 08:48 PM)EppurSiMuove Wrote:  Hello fellow heathens,
I'm curious if you guys have asked this question before. I'm certain most have, and if enjoy your input. I've often wondered, why does Heaven sound so enticing to Christians? I mean, what exactly sounds so great about spending eternity doing nothing but worshipping a monarch? In all honesty, I can't think of anything that I would want to do FOREVER, but certainly not kissing some cosmic tyrant's ass. When my wife was younger, she would ask her church deacon mother questions about heaven, and she told her things like there's no marriage in heaven, and that everyone would just be happy all the time. I know it's a moot point, considering it's all fantasy, but for arguments sake, lets concede that heaven is real. If we have none of the things that make THIS life beautiful and worthwhile in heaven, how could that be desirable? If we lose the capabailty to feel deep emotions in heaven, other than ignorant bliss, does that not mean we also lose the very parts of us that make us who we are? Even when I followed the narrative and went along believing in God (somewhat, anyway), I was still a deep-thinking person who dealt with depression, often cause by a deep-seated empathy for others and their suffering. As weird as it might sound, I like that part of me. Not because it's ideal, but because it's me. I feel as if most Christians always dutifully preach away and "dive in to the scriptures", but never ask themselves what heaven would be like, realistically (again, moot point, since they are not realistic). Thoughts?

Religion is the desire for the unearned. It's the desire for unearned dignity, unearned personal worth, unearned love, unearned knowledge, unearned forgiveness. What it is, is a desire to escape from the law of causality. What's so enticing is that there will be no responsibility to achieve values, they will be given without effort. They won't have to think or produce anything. In other words it will be the opposite of being alive. life requires the purposeful struggle for values, values which must be produced through thinking and effort. They are a death worshiping cult. They associate life with suffering and death with reward. That's what happens logically when you hold selflessness as your standard of morality.

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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23-02-2016, 10:52 AM
RE: Would Heaven even be worth it?
(22-02-2016 09:01 PM)Heatheness Wrote:  Heaven, no. Exist forever and can't fuck, drink alcohol, do drugs, eat chocolate or seafood or have pets... FTS. Sounds like hell to me.

Oh, I'm quite certain (as certain as any other human being could be, given no one's actually been there) that you get ALL of this in heaven. Just like Muslim men will be rewarded with 72 virgins, something they were never allowed to experience here on earth. Laugh out load

"Why hast thou forsaken me, o deity whose existence I doubt..." - Dr. Sheldon Cooper
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