Would Yahweh of the Old Testament be a fan of Ayn Rand's books?
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20-02-2016, 08:09 AM
Would Yahweh of the Old Testament be a fan of Ayn Rand's books?
A lot of evangelical Christians are big fans of (staunch anti-theist) Ayn Rand's works, specifically because of her "fuck you, got mine" view on economics. They're also big fans of the Old Testament, and largely ignore Jesus's teachings. What is it about these two things that makes them so compatable?

Now, I haven't looked through the entire list of commandments, but it seems to me that Yahweh spends a lot of time in the OT asking his puny little human slaves to dance for his amusement. Most of his commands boil down to "you must do this to please ME." Whenever Yahweh actually does give a commandment that's meant for the betterment of a community, he literally just means YOUR community. Fuck everyone else. If you can find a reason to write them off, any reason at all, then feel free to do so.

So what do you guys think, does Yahweh have a bookshelf stocked full of Ayn Rand novels?

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20-02-2016, 08:23 AM
RE: Would Yahweh of the Old Testament be a fan of Ayn Rand's books?
No.

Her philosophy was built on the idea of rational self-interest and individual rights. The idea that since it was in the best interest of everyone to live in a peaceful society it was in their best interest to act in a way to make that easiest. For her this naturally led to the idea of Lessie-faire capitalism. She abhored the idea of human sacrifice, the idea of slavery, and the idea that anyone should be obligated to anyone else. Of course her ideas don't work because it makes assumptions that EVERYONE will be rational and act in their long term best interests all the time.

But no, god would not be a fan. He wants power, and control over others. Ayn Rand was very much against those ideas.
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20-02-2016, 09:21 AM (This post was last modified: 20-02-2016 09:40 AM by true scotsman.)
RE: Would Yahweh of the Old Testament be a fan of Ayn Rand's books?
(20-02-2016 08:09 AM)cactus Wrote:  A lot of evangelical Christians are big fans of (staunch anti-theist) Ayn Rand's works, specifically because of her "fuck you, got mine" view on economics. They're also big fans of the Old Testament, and largely ignore Jesus's teachings. What is it about these two things that makes them so compatable?

Now, I haven't looked through the entire list of commandments, but it seems to me that Yahweh spends a lot of time in the OT asking his puny little human slaves to dance for his amusement. Most of his commands boil down to "you must do this to please ME." Whenever Yahweh actually does give a commandment that's meant for the betterment of a community, he literally just means YOUR community. Fuck everyone else. If you can find a reason to write them off, any reason at all, then feel free to do so.

So what do you guys think, does Yahweh have a bookshelf stocked full of Ayn Rand novels?

Ayn Rand was not Anti-theist. She was atheist, yes, but she was also agremlinist, aunicornist, afariest. She did not approve of religion because she said it was based in mysticism, not reason but she also publicly stated that she would never pass a law banning it. She was the arch enemy of force and coercion. She was for the complete abolition of the initiation of force. She believed in dealing with others by reason only. You obviously have not done your homework on this.

If she was so anti-theist, then why are there no religious villains in her novels. There isn't a single one. All of the villains are collectivists. religion is a species of collectivism, no doubt, but she never singled it out. You see she believed in individual rights and the freedom to live by ones own judgement, including the right to believe in invisible magic beings. She wouldn't try to stop anyone believing in gods, she simply wouldn't deal with them. She very much had a live and let live attitude as far as taking any physical action so long as one does not try to deal by force. She believed in trading value for value, not enslaving people. It is collectivists and leftist who want to enslave all to all, except for the enlightened leaders of course. That's what the morality of sacrifice is all about. For every sacrificer, there also has to be a collector of sacrifice.

Some religious people accept some of her ideas but in my experience they generally despise her for her atheism. Theism and Objectivism are diametrically opposed at the most fundamental level. They are not compatible in any way. Religious people, like a lot of non-religious people, hold a hodgepodge of conflicting ideas. The Tea Party is a perfect example. They are for individualism and freedom and capitalism but they are also, through their religion, for altruism and self sacrifice. The two are not compatible and that's why the Tea Party has been so ineffective. They will never succeed, no one will ever succeed, in championing capitalism and individualism on an altruist moral base. It can't be done.

I challenge you to find "fuck you, got mine" anywhere in any of her writings. She explicitly held as a moral principle that no man should ever live for the sake of others, nor ask others to live for one's sake. She wanted to abolish the idea of sacrifice, of any sacrifice, either of one's own self for others or others for one's self. She actually had a healthy and elevated view of people. She had respect for Human beings as sovereign individuals who owned their own lives. She held that one must achieve one's own good by his own efforts, not by taking what others have produced. The essence of her economics was peaceful voluntary exchange to mutual benefit. That's not "fuck you, got mine". She was all for charity and helping others so long as it was not seen as a moral duty or moral virtue. Please provide quotes from her original writings which support the attitude of "fuck you, got mine". I've read all of her books and articles and it's not there. The amazing thing about Ayn Rand is that she is universally misrepresented by her critics. I've never seen an honest critique of any of her ideas. What does that say?

As for Whether the god of the old testament would like her books, there is no such thing. If there were, it certainly wouldn't approve of her ideas. It would be all about obedience, not self reliance and individualism.

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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20-02-2016, 09:32 AM
RE: Would Yahweh of the Old Testament be a fan of Ayn Rand's books?
(20-02-2016 08:23 AM)natachan Wrote:  No.

Her philosophy was built on the idea of rational self-interest and individual rights. The idea that since it was in the best interest of everyone to live in a peaceful society it was in their best interest to act in a way to make that easiest. For her this naturally led to the idea of Lessie-faire capitalism. She abhored the idea of human sacrifice, the idea of slavery, and the idea that anyone should be obligated to anyone else. Of course her ideas don't work because it makes assumptions that EVERYONE will be rational and act in their long term best interests all the time.

But no, god would not be a fan. He wants power, and control over others. Ayn Rand was very much against those ideas.

Her ideas do not require everyone to be rational. They only require that the irrational can not use a gun to force their irratiionality on anyone else. She would say, you want to be irrational, go be irrational, but leave me out. So long as no one has the right to force others, people can be as loony as they want. That's the job of government, to protect us from the loonies.

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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20-02-2016, 09:41 AM
RE: Would Yahweh of the Old Testament be a fan of Ayn Rand's books?
(20-02-2016 09:32 AM)true scotsman Wrote:  Her ideas do not require everyone to be rational. They only require that the irrational can not use a gun to force their irratiionality on anyone else. She would say, you want to be irrational, go be irrational, but leave me out. So long as no one has the right to force others, people can be as loony as they want. That's the job of government, to protect us from the loonies.

It's a darn good thing there has never been an irrational government that had guns. Dodgy

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20-02-2016, 10:05 AM
RE: Would Yahweh of the Old Testament be a fan of Ayn Rand's books?
(20-02-2016 09:41 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(20-02-2016 09:32 AM)true scotsman Wrote:  Her ideas do not require everyone to be rational. They only require that the irrational can not use a gun to force their irratiionality on anyone else. She would say, you want to be irrational, go be irrational, but leave me out. So long as no one has the right to force others, people can be as loony as they want. That's the job of government, to protect us from the loonies.

It's a darn good thing there has never been an irrational government that had guns. Dodgy

Yes. When the loonies are in charge, as they are now, what can one do? We get the government that the majority vote for. If the majority are irrational, we will get the kind of government that we have now. Ultimately everything that occurs politically, can be traced back to a single philosophical principle. Currently that principle is that no man has the right to live for his own sake. Until that changes we will not get a rational government or society. Religion is the number one advocate of the idea that no man has the right to live for his own sake. As long as we have religion as a major influence, unfortunately we will have irrational governments with guns.

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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