Poll: What chance would the American people stand in protesting 2012 elections?
This poll is closed.
The 1st would protect us and we'd have our say! Of course. 10.00% 1 10.00%
We'd be tolerated for a time, until the crowd became huge and D.C powers felt cramped. Then we'd be toast! 20.00% 2 20.00%
We'd have to have a permit, (Permission) to put the 1st into action. Without that, we'd be arrested ASAP! Yeah, that's freedom! Protests require permits! (/sarcasm) 0% 0 0%
We could gather till we were blue and flat footed and it would never change anything! We ain't Egypt! 50.00% 5 50.00%
My answer isn't in this list of options. *So, give one in a post. ;-) ) 20.00% 2 20.00%
Total 10 votes 100%
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Would we stand a chance? (Poll Included)
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20-02-2011, 01:38 PM
 
Star Would we stand a chance? (Poll Included)
We all probably watched the 19 day struggle in the news regarding the protests in Egypt. Now, that seems to have inspired a lot of fire in the ME generally.

Question, and Wisconsin Labor protests not withstanding, do you think in 2012, after the Presidential elections, if the American people were to protest the winner of that election if we'd stand to last 19 days, as the people in Egypt did over the same "leader" issue?

Or, would we find that our First amendment right was cast aside and the National Guard, Capitol police, pepper spray, police K-9's, etc... would be dispatched so as to disperse us by any means necessary. (Using the excuse of "National Security", since this would occur in the Capital of DC. ? )

Wisconsin protests are another matter, regarding pending union legislation. This would projection would pose a more serious spark of outrage regarding the leadership of the entire country.

Thanks for reading me. Big Grin I'll try to stop back in as soon as I can to follow up. (Using public library 'puter now. Long story. :dodgySmile
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20-02-2011, 02:05 PM
RE: Would we stand a chance? (Poll Included)
First, you can't compare the US elections to Egypt, where the results are determined well in advance and are not really elections but basically a show put on to pretend the people have the right of self determination.

Second, we had big protests in the US already leading up to the 2010 midterms and they were done (relatively) peacefully and without incident. And, when it was all done the electoral process proceeded as it always does.

The US has certainly had moments where protests were met with force (see the 1968 Democrat Convention in Chicago) but those types of responses are more anomalies and the country as a whole usually deals with them by going after the state who uses power like that.

The US is far from perfect and our rights are being constantly encroached upon since 9/11 but I don't think we've hit the point yet where we need to fear the state for exercising our rights to peaceful assembly. We may get there, but I don't think we are there just yet.

Shackle their minds when they're bent on the cross
When ignorance reigns, life is lost
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20-02-2011, 03:16 PM (This post was last modified: 20-02-2011 03:49 PM by Lilith Pride.)
RE: Would we stand a chance? (Poll Included)
I think they'd let us gather and protest in the capitol, because while we're all protesting on the streets all the media networks and journals would play down the protest to ensure that the average person not join in the fight. Public displays and outcries do not carry the weight of media broadcasts anymore. The corporations in charge know fully well they don't have much to worry about. A peaceful protest to stop the 2012 elections in the US would take at least 2 years to succeed not 19 days.

Crap I voted the first option. I'm with the other people in the poll if I could change my vote it would better reflect the answers. Sorry about that didn't mean to mess up the poll. If there is a way to change my vote let me know.

I'm not a non believer, I believe in the possibility of anything. I just don't let the actuality of something be determined by a 3rd party.
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20-02-2011, 04:14 PM
RE: Would we stand a chance? (Poll Included)
(20-02-2011 02:05 PM)BnW Wrote:  First, you can't compare the US elections to Egypt, where the results are determined well in advance and are not really elections but basically a show put on to pretend the people have the right of self determination.

Second, we had big protests in the US already leading up to the 2010 midterms and they were done (relatively) peacefully and without incident. And, when it was all done the electoral process proceeded as it always does.

The US has certainly had moments where protests were met with force (see the 1968 Democrat Convention in Chicago) but those types of responses are more anomalies and the country as a whole usually deals with them by going after the state who uses power like that.

The US is far from perfect and our rights are being constantly encroached upon since 9/11 but I don't think we've hit the point yet where we need to fear the state for exercising our rights to peaceful assembly. We may get there, but I don't think we are there just yet.

Really? maybe you haven't been paying attention. Are you aware of the FBI raids carried out against anti-war protesters? their homes raided just because they are part of the anti-war coalition, without warrants. How about the RNC protests in 2008? How about the silent anti-war protester just days ago that was beaten and arrested for merely standing up during Hillary Clinton's speech at a university, while wearing a shirt that read "Veterans for Peace"? That's just a few examples but I can bring up many, MANY more. These aren't isolated examples, if you look at all the instances of repression of freedom of speech you see it's systematic. Granted a lot of this is not covered in the mainstream media so I can't fully fault those people ignorant on these issues.

"Liberty without socialism is privilege, injustice; socialism without liberty is slavery and brutality." Mikhail Bakunin
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23-02-2011, 03:36 PM
 
RE: Would we stand a chance? (Poll Included)
Sadly, the country is getting more and more divided thanks to the GOP legislation. I don't see a unified country in any one issue anymore. And that unlike EGYPT would be the biggest hurdle. When we have Tea Party movement, who sides more and more big big business and are fooled into thinking by people like the Koch brothers.. Its a problem. Its Koch and compnies like that who want to defund education.. Which, if you think about it, is a problem. Stupid people are fooled into thinking being a serf is cool.

I look at the US right now and I see a trend towards serfdom, where we the middle and working class have a right to work for our lords.. aka big business.

Sorry went on a rant there.
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23-02-2011, 10:43 PM
RE: Would we stand a chance? (Poll Included)
(23-02-2011 03:36 PM)AnthraxFan93 Wrote:  I look at the US right now and I see a trend towards serfdom, where we the middle and working class have a right to work for our lords.. aka big business.

I think that sums it up very nicely there. I'm pretty sure that a lot of people who voted for our current GOP heavy legislature didn't really know what they would be getting into.

My reason for being is to serve as a cat cushion. That is good enough for me. Wink
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25-02-2011, 05:33 PM
RE: Would we stand a chance? (Poll Included)
(20-02-2011 04:14 PM)sosa Wrote:  
(20-02-2011 02:05 PM)BnW Wrote:  First, you can't compare the US elections to Egypt, where the results are determined well in advance and are not really elections but basically a show put on to pretend the people have the right of self determination.

Second, we had big protests in the US already leading up to the 2010 midterms and they were done (relatively) peacefully and without incident. And, when it was all done the electoral process proceeded as it always does.

The US has certainly had moments where protests were met with force (see the 1968 Democrat Convention in Chicago) but those types of responses are more anomalies and the country as a whole usually deals with them by going after the state who uses power like that.

The US is far from perfect and our rights are being constantly encroached upon since 9/11 but I don't think we've hit the point yet where we need to fear the state for exercising our rights to peaceful assembly. We may get there, but I don't think we are there just yet.

Really? maybe you haven't been paying attention. Are you aware of the FBI raids carried out against anti-war protesters? their homes raided just because they are part of the anti-war coalition, without warrants. How about the RNC protests in 2008? How about the silent anti-war protester just days ago that was beaten and arrested for merely standing up during Hillary Clinton's speech at a university, while wearing a shirt that read "Veterans for Peace"? That's just a few examples but I can bring up many, MANY more. These aren't isolated examples, if you look at all the instances of repression of freedom of speech you see it's systematic. Granted a lot of this is not covered in the mainstream media so I can't fully fault those people ignorant on these issues.

There certainly have been incidents, and some scary ones, but I don't think we are yet at the level of full scale police state.

Or, maybe I'm just kidding myself. That is possible too.

Shackle their minds when they're bent on the cross
When ignorance reigns, life is lost
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27-02-2011, 01:50 PM
 
RE: Would we stand a chance? (Poll Included)
As if the majority of the American people care enough to protest about ANYTHING in large numbers for weeks.

But, we are a nation of 300 million people, and I'm sure a protest of even the smallest minority could put together a couple of million people.

But there is the issue. Any protest of that nature would be a protest/attempted revolution of the minority (like the Tea Party). The majority of Americans are moderate, and don't care enough about politics, for good reasons that are sometimes justifiable, to really go out there and protest.

Besides, as BnW states, there would be no reason to protest, if there actually was an election. Sure, I probably won't agree with the outcome of the liberal side doesn't win, and I'll probably point to the insane amounts of corporate propaganda flowing on the airwaves because of Citizens United, but an election is an election.

If the election were rigged, and we have had a protest representing the views of a majority of Americans (who in this case would be well-informed), then we can consider the original question. This relies upon a huge number of hypotheticals though.

With a sufficiently large crows, I don't think the government can really do anything. It isn't so amoral as to fire upon the crowd. And if it did use dispersion tactics, it would be fruitless against a crowd of several million (which is what we would need, in multiple cities). Tear gas and rubber bullets only work on smaller crowds. The protests would also need to be peaceful.

The US is calling for Gadafi in Libya to step down because he fired on his own people. Hypocrisy comes easy for the US government, but in this case, I don't think the government would fire on its own people after the stance it has taken on the issue abroad.

I think we could do it, if all the aforementioned hypotheticals were in place.
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02-03-2011, 04:31 PM
 
Tongue This is what happens when I don't have a computer so as to follow-up on my own post!
While it is obvious we aren't Egypt, I voted for the third option. Mainly because I formulated it to reflect not only the obvious, but that even a government and citizen community vastly different from that of the U.S. stands a better chance of ousting what they believe is a corrupt regime, than do we the people of what is said to be a beacon of freedom for the world.

When those who live here know well enough, there is nothing free in America! Everything, absolutely everything comes at a cost and requires money to enjoy the liberty of usage.

And I agree with the observation that one need note protests in America have not been met with open hearts and governing tolerance. As was patently obvious during the Administration of Bush43, when he enacted Free Speech Zones in those capitol areas where he was to make a pubic appearance/speech. Complete with capitol police who monitored goings on and were more than ready to make arrests on those who did not tow the party line. While those who agreed with George, were permitted in closer proximity to his presence.

Let's not forget AIDS activists who participate in a demonstration in the rotunda of the U.S. Capitol Building in Washington on July 8, 2009.They were carried away by police, when they dared to rally against what they said was Obama's failing to meet his campaign promises regarding AIDS/HIV research and patient outreach/support.

Not to mention the Liberals to this day in Wisconsin are violating their duty to office and are worthy of arrest, having taken flight from the State so as to avoid meeting their Legislative responsibility. While protesters (at day 15) remain under threat of removal for daring to speak their minds regarding either side of the issue.
And when the Governor set's a bad example, regarding support of constituents right to speak it sets a precedent in it's own right that bolsters what many see as that old adage come true; any government that gives freedom can take it away.

Walker ignores court order, locks out Wisconsin protesters


So, while it appears we are a great nation it appears tolerance for those who speak to the power that governs us all, is not at a premium. Perhaps we missed that post script attached to the First amendment? Freedom of speech, unless one dares to speak to a government that isn't in the mood to hear!Confused
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