Would you accept God if he showed everyone he existed
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23-04-2015, 01:32 AM
RE: Would you accept God if he showed everyone he existed
(22-04-2015 11:54 PM)morondog Wrote:  So being 5 minutes late implies the need to burn forever?

No.

(22-04-2015 11:54 PM)morondog Wrote:  Sin as in not meeting the mark may be all that it is, but it's used as justification for the entire edifice - the idea is that you sin and God's *totally* justified in doing nasty things to you. Not just justified but he loves you so much that instead of torturing *you* he'll send his son to get tortured instead - not possible to *not* torture you, you see... But now you owe the son. Oh boy you owe him big time.

Consider Romans 6:7. which says that when we die, we are acquitted of our sins. In other words, there can be no punishment afterwards because we are paid in full. Sin equals death, not a literal torture forever with fire.

(22-04-2015 11:54 PM)morondog Wrote:  The priest will be coming by shortly to collect. Pay him off for the rest of your life and *if* you don't put a foot wrong, *if* you correctly follow the precepts of this ridiculous book of nonsense I am going to give you, then *maybe* God will let you off the hook and you get to go to this stupid eternal existence where you play songs on a harp and sing all about how fucken wonderful this murderous arsehole is.

According to the priest, not the Bible.

(22-04-2015 11:54 PM)morondog Wrote:  I'll pass Dodgy

As you wish. You just might want to consider where you are getting your information on the subject.
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23-04-2015, 01:56 AM
RE: Would you accept God if he showed everyone he existed
(23-04-2015 01:32 AM)The Theist Wrote:  As you wish. You just might want to consider where you are getting your information on the subject.

OK then, you present *your* qualifications to tell me how to live my life.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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23-04-2015, 04:58 AM
RE: Would you accept God if he showed everyone he existed
(19-04-2015 08:54 AM)MrKrispy601 Wrote:  " If the God of the bible and of Abraham came down and showed everyone that he is real and true would you accept him?"

I immediately was prompted to have him explain what he meant by accept him.
Exactly the question I would have asked.

(19-04-2015 08:54 AM)MrKrispy601 Wrote:  He responded "That you will bow and recognize that he is the ultimate authority."

My answer to this was a definite no.
Exactly the answer I would have given.

Now who says that getting atheists aligned is like herding cats?

I'm an adult, I think for myself, I make my own decisions, I don't need permission from an authority. In fact I vote for a government that focuses on providing infrastructure and supports a growing and thriving society rather than one that looks to control our thoughts and behaviors making us feel guilt and deserving of punishment.

If god were real and was anything like the bible described him, I wouldn't give him my vote.
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23-04-2015, 09:50 AM
RE: Would you accept God if he showed everyone he existed
(23-04-2015 01:56 AM)morondog Wrote:  OK then, you present *your* qualifications to tell me how to live my life.

Who said I would be even remotely interested in such a responsibility?
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23-04-2015, 12:56 PM
RE: Would you accept God if he showed everyone he existed
It really gets to be a drag when people argue about poetry. Drinking Beverage

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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23-04-2015, 12:57 PM
RE: Would you accept God if he showed everyone he existed
(23-04-2015 09:50 AM)The Theist Wrote:  
(23-04-2015 01:56 AM)morondog Wrote:  OK then, you present *your* qualifications to tell me how to live my life.

Who said I would be even remotely interested in such a responsibility?

Quote:As you wish. You just might want to consider where you are getting your information on the subject.

You with your fucking smug implication that I'm *not* qualified to decide when something is horseshit or not. Now go get bent, you ridiculous prick.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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23-04-2015, 01:01 PM
RE: Would you accept God if he showed everyone he existed
(23-04-2015 09:50 AM)The Theist Wrote:  
(23-04-2015 01:56 AM)morondog Wrote:  OK then, you present *your* qualifications to tell me how to live my life.

Who said I would be even remotely interested in such a responsibility?


Jesus fucking christ, telling people how to live their lives is theists stock in trade. Facepalm

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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23-04-2015, 01:05 PM
RE: Would you accept God if he showed everyone he existed
(23-04-2015 01:11 AM)The Theist Wrote:  
(22-04-2015 11:54 PM)pablo Wrote:  By "harmonious throughout " do you mean it never contradicts itself?

No. The Bible is fallible, as an imperfect translation of the perfect word of Jehovah God. The harmoniousness throughout is the means by which this can be tested. If Moses says there was a canopy of water around the Earth, and then there was a flood, and Peter, thousands of years later says this canopy was gone after the flood, that is harmonious. If, on the other hand one portion of it says the soul dies and the other seems to say the contrary then there is something wrong. Further investigation is needed.

(22-04-2015 11:54 PM)pablo Wrote:  I would never describe being late as a sin.
Why do you believe that something as minor as being late, or not showing up, is grounds for your god to punish you for eternity?

No, but to sin doesn't necessarily mean to be deserving of everlasting punishment. Since we all sin, in effect, and not all of us will be subject to everlasting punishment that much is obvious. The only people or beings that will be punished everlasting are those who don't want to fit harmoniously into Jehovah God's system, or world. That, as foretold to Adam, leads to destruction and he won't have those people fucking it up for everyone else.

(22-04-2015 11:54 PM)pablo Wrote:  You mention Adam (a somehow magically created being) as the reason for original sin. In the next sentence you write; "It isn't a supernatural concept."
How else do you explain Adam?

Adam was a man. He wasn't supernatural.

Again, you go to the bible as if it is true simply because the bible says it's true.
You have to do better than that.

As far as Adam goes, your bulshit book claims he was magically created from dirt by god.
If we are to believe this, and that Adam ever existed at all, how can Adam be anything other than supernatural?
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23-04-2015, 03:23 PM
RE: Would you accept God if he showed everyone he existed
Well, its a question of acceptance. You actually don't have the authority or power to say one way or another, but if the alleged Creator was what he claimed, and presented himself to you as such, would you accept it through obedience, or deny it through disobedience.

I couldn't imagine that such a position would be hard for you to conceive. Imagine you get a knock on your door. You open it and on the other side is a being. He states "I am a god. Give me all your belongings."

You have a couple of options here.
1. You give him all your belongings with out question. Because as you stated, it's a matter of acceptance. And you do not have the authority or power to say other wise.
2. You question him.
3. You ignore him out right. Coming to the conclusion he is not a god.

If you question him what sort of qualifications would he need to fill? Do you ask his name? If he responded with anything beside Yahweh or even Jesus; do you slam the door in his face? If he gets anger at you because you don't believe him even making the statement that he never lies. Do you then change your opinion?

The real interesting question, to me, is, if, as an atheist, I presume, you have done his will unknowingly would that count for anything?

What? I don't think I understand the question. If i have done his will unknowingly would that count for anything? So if God wanted me to Fart on public transit, and I did it. He would count that as a ticket to heaven?

They say the more things change the more they stay the same.

Jesus didn't say this. At first I remembered as being a Bon Jovi song, then with a little research it was originally stated by Jean-Baptiste Alphonse Karr a french poet.

(22-04-2015 08:37 PM)The Theist Wrote:  Hmmm . . . are you sure about that, especially when considering that protection would seem to require God's protection of man from man himself. The way I see it the majority by far of damage done in God's name or otherwise hasn't been done by God.

So you would say nature wasn't in your gods control? (I would have to agree because I don't think he exist) Hurricanes, floods, tsunamis, earthquakes, volcanoes (ash clouds included) droughts, viruses, the common cold, cancer, parasites comets, asteroid. the Andromeda galaxy. The reason we can survive is not threw a deity's protection it threw our own knowledge. We can now tell when a disaster my arise, threw our technology. Before modern dentistry wisdom teeth used to kill people. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_nat...death_toll

(22-04-2015 08:37 PM)The Theist Wrote:  I never could appreciate the average atheist agreement of this point. The angels were independent thinking beings who remained, for the most part, obedient, for an unknown but presumably vast period of time and Jesus Christ demonstrated that a man, such as Adam had been, could do the same.

So you've heard this statement before? And your response to it is you know the thoughts and actions of angels? And the that the amount of time Jesus (who we don't know existed) spent most of his life talking to people about Adam (who we now know never existed) and how he knew god.

I try to clarify more it for you. Right now there are 12 major religions of the world Baha'i, Buddhism, Christianity, Confucianism, Hinduism, Islam, Jainism, Judaism, Shinto, Sikhism, Taoism and Zoroastrianism. There are also numerous smaller religions many branching off of these or going completely off the radar like Scientology, Inedia, or Prince Philip Movement. Each one making the clam that their God/Gods or Philosophy will give you the best life. Each making a clam what you can or cannot do with your mind or body. All any one of these plethora or deities would have to do is present him/herself, demonstrate that they have what qualifies oneself as a god, and give sound evidence from why their way is the "right" way. It could be very easy for one that has such immense power. Such as making things appear out of thin air, stopping the rotation of the earth, or with an intergalactic armada to demonstrate their might, or abilities. We could argue over it. I would be cut and dry. It would be as evident as the earth under our feet. I don't give two shits about what some guy who read a book about a guy, that knew a guy that talked to a guy, who know this being has to say. Proof is what is needed. Not a story. Not a feeling. Not a thought. EVIDENCE!

(22-04-2015 08:37 PM)The Theist Wrote:  What opportunity? To know God? He has. You reject it just as Satan and Adam did.

So in your story God showed himself in true form to Adam, God showed himself in true form to Jacob. God Show's up as a Bush to Moses, then a human man, then more resently a piece of toast. To me it would some like he just stopped trying.

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23-04-2015, 04:43 PM
RE: Would you accept God if he showed everyone he existed
(22-04-2015 10:52 AM)The Theist Wrote:  The question of would the unbeliever become a believer if they were confronted directly by that which they don't believe exists is an interesting one. It is basically the position of the believer in Jehovah God of the Bible to present the case as best they can for the unbeliever to make an informed decision. The question addresses the issue before Adam, namely, the acceptance or denial of the sovereignty of Jehovah God.

Knowing that Jehovah exists is only the first step, for as it is written, "The demons know and yet shudder." Not all of those accepting the existence of God would accept his sovereignty as Creator.

I don't really relate to the idea that slavery is directly related to this question in the sense that it seems somewhat ironic. At the very least it seems an emotional reaction to a social issue in a very general application.

God didn't develop the concept of slavery, mankind did. God, having given mankind the freedom to do this of their own accord through legislation after the fact. In other words, put simply, God said you want to have slaves, then here are the laws regarding how to do this.

The acceptance of the Creator's sovereignty could be considered to be in question for having allegedly given mankind the right to practice slavery as it was then, under the Mosaic Law.

That form of slavery was, without a doubt, different than the most recent cases in our modern history. Slavery in the form as presented in Europe and The United States Of America would have been punishable by death.

It seems as illogical to judge ancient tenants as presented in the Bible for the objection of slavery as it would be to do the same with the political structures of those times, i.e. democracy or republic.

Pathway Machine | Bible Topics: Slavery

God did create and sanction slavery:

Leviticus 25:44-46: (spoken by God to Moses)

"Thy bond-men and thy bond-maids which thou shalt have, shall be of the heathen that are round about you: of them shall ye buy bond-men and bond-maids. Moreover, of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, and of their families that are with you, which they begat in your land. And they shall be your possession. And ye shall take them as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit them for a possession, they shall be your bond-man forever."
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