Would you accept God if he showed everyone he existed
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23-04-2015, 04:50 PM
RE: Would you accept God if he showed everyone he existed
(23-04-2015 04:43 PM)jennybee Wrote:  
(22-04-2015 10:52 AM)The Theist Wrote:  The question of would the unbeliever become a believer if they were confronted directly by that which they don't believe exists is an interesting one. It is basically the position of the believer in Jehovah God of the Bible to present the case as best they can for the unbeliever to make an informed decision. The question addresses the issue before Adam, namely, the acceptance or denial of the sovereignty of Jehovah God.

Knowing that Jehovah exists is only the first step, for as it is written, "The demons know and yet shudder." Not all of those accepting the existence of God would accept his sovereignty as Creator.

I don't really relate to the idea that slavery is directly related to this question in the sense that it seems somewhat ironic. At the very least it seems an emotional reaction to a social issue in a very general application.

God didn't develop the concept of slavery, mankind did. God, having given mankind the freedom to do this of their own accord through legislation after the fact. In other words, put simply, God said you want to have slaves, then here are the laws regarding how to do this.

The acceptance of the Creator's sovereignty could be considered to be in question for having allegedly given mankind the right to practice slavery as it was then, under the Mosaic Law.

That form of slavery was, without a doubt, different than the most recent cases in our modern history. Slavery in the form as presented in Europe and The United States Of America would have been punishable by death.

It seems as illogical to judge ancient tenants as presented in the Bible for the objection of slavery as it would be to do the same with the political structures of those times, i.e. democracy or republic.

Pathway Machine | Bible Topics: Slavery

God did create and sanction slavery:

Leviticus 25:44-46: (spoken by God to Moses)

"Thy bond-men and thy bond-maids which thou shalt have, shall be of the heathen that are round about you: of them shall ye buy bond-men and bond-maids. Moreover, of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, and of their families that are with you, which they begat in your land. And they shall be your possession. And ye shall take them as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit them for a possession, they shall be your bond-man forever."

There is no god. Men wrote a book about a god.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF

We're all mad here. The Cheshire Cat

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23-04-2015, 04:51 PM
RE: Would you accept God if he showed everyone he existed
(23-04-2015 12:04 AM)The Theist Wrote:  
(22-04-2015 11:48 PM)Shadow Fox Wrote:  Of course not.


1. It could be an alien or extra dimensional being - Any sufficiently high level of technology is indistinguishable from magic.

2. A elaborate hoax

3. I could be drugged

4. My senses cannot be trusted.

5. Something else.

Therefor, even if god "revealed" himself. I still wouldn't believe it because god did not reveal himself because he does not exist and I cannot explain away something I don't know or cannot explain by inserting "deity" into it.

Have you considered the possibility that your objection springs from the linguistic rather than the theological?

Not really. It is just the most logical rational thing to do.
We know for certainty that Gods and magic are not a normal part of our universe. Anyone claiming they saw a god other than "jesus" and the entire world laughs at them and from here I can get into that whole argument of your deity is not the only one blah blah and geographical distribution of religion, but let's leave that down for now!

NOW!


It is only logical to assume that because I saw something I cannot understand that I cannot let my emotions, lack of understanding or anything else allow me to just throw the a god did it fallacy into play.

This is what people from long ago did with lightning and earthquakes and everything else like illness that we did not understand and this is where the god of the gaps go.
I do not want to insert magic into the space where I do not understand, its wrong and I hate being wrong.


My Youtube channel if anyone is interested.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCEkRdbq...rLEz-0jEHQ
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23-04-2015, 04:55 PM
RE: Would you accept God if he showed everyone he existed
(23-04-2015 01:11 AM)The Theist Wrote:  
(22-04-2015 11:54 PM)pablo Wrote:  By "harmonious throughout " do you mean it never contradicts itself?

No. The Bible is fallible, as an imperfect translation of the perfect word of Jehovah God. The harmoniousness throughout is the means by which this can be tested. If Moses says there was a canopy of water around the Earth, and then there was a flood, and Peter, thousands of years later says this canopy was gone after the flood, that is harmonious. If, on the other hand one portion of it says the soul dies and the other seems to say the contrary then there is something wrong. Further investigation is needed.

(22-04-2015 11:54 PM)pablo Wrote:  I would never describe being late as a sin.
Why do you believe that something as minor as being late, or not showing up, is grounds for your god to punish you for eternity?

No, but to sin doesn't necessarily mean to be deserving of everlasting punishment. Since we all sin, in effect, and not all of us will be subject to everlasting punishment that much is obvious. The only people or beings that will be punished everlasting are those who don't want to fit harmoniously into Jehovah God's system, or world. That, as foretold to Adam, leads to destruction and he won't have those people fucking it up for everyone else.

(22-04-2015 11:54 PM)pablo Wrote:  You mention Adam (a somehow magically created being) as the reason for original sin. In the next sentence you write; "It isn't a supernatural concept."
How else do you explain Adam?

Adam was a man. He wasn't supernatural.

Why do you think God, who according to the Bible, is all powerful--would allow an imperfect translation of his Word to exist? And if you do believe the Word is imperfect due to scribes copying/rewriting/changing things over time, then how do you know it's really the true Word of God?
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23-04-2015, 04:58 PM
RE: Would you accept God if he showed everyone he existed
(23-04-2015 04:50 PM)Anjele Wrote:  
(23-04-2015 04:43 PM)jennybee Wrote:  God did create and sanction slavery:

Leviticus 25:44-46: (spoken by God to Moses)

"Thy bond-men and thy bond-maids which thou shalt have, shall be of the heathen that are round about you: of them shall ye buy bond-men and bond-maids. Moreover, of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, and of their families that are with you, which they begat in your land. And they shall be your possession. And ye shall take them as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit them for a possession, they shall be your bond-man forever."

There is no god. Men wrote a book about a god.

Agreed--but if people quote the Bible--they should at least quote it correctly was my only point Wink
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23-04-2015, 05:00 PM
RE: Would you accept God if he showed everyone he existed
(23-04-2015 04:58 PM)jennybee Wrote:  
(23-04-2015 04:50 PM)Anjele Wrote:  There is no god. Men wrote a book about a god.

Agreed--but if people quote the Bible--they should at least quote it correctly was my only point Wink

Few of the preachy theists do that. It's hard to cherry pick if you use all the words in the order in which they are presented.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF

We're all mad here. The Cheshire Cat

Are my Chakras on straight?
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24-04-2015, 10:38 AM
RE: Would you accept God if he showed everyone he existed
I like to imagine Theist being the nerds to the Bible. Just like "Potheads" to Harry Potter or Ringers to Lord of the Rings. They argue whether they could have flew the giant eagles to Mt. Doom. or if Hermione should have wound up being with Harry in stead of Ron. All in the same context you delve into these fantasy realm to see what flaws can be found. Being a fellow geek i have many of these debates. But at the end of the day you may have a heart felt conviction towards an out come or a plot point, but it's all not real. What sad for me, is when someone can't distinguish between fact and fiction. You get people saying the this book is all factual and they read it cover to cover. Hearing stories about talking animals, people with wings, and magic. And still will stand by it.

Here is a Wikipedia link to a story about such a phenomenon in Harry Potter. Fan fiction, and additional stories added by fans that become cannon to J.K. Rowling's universe. When Rowling looked it up she was surprised. She never thought of these points, and found it all funny and some what disturbing. Scroll down to "ship dates" if your interested in more.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Potter_fandom

Don't Live each day like it's your last. Live each day like you have 541 days after that one where every choice you make will have lasting implications to you and the world around you. ~ Tim Minchin
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24-04-2015, 11:09 AM
RE: Would you accept God if he showed everyone he existed
(23-04-2015 04:55 PM)jennybee Wrote:  
(23-04-2015 01:11 AM)The Theist Wrote:  No. The Bible is fallible, as an imperfect translation of the perfect word of Jehovah God. The harmoniousness throughout is the means by which this can be tested. If Moses says there was a canopy of water around the Earth, and then there was a flood, and Peter, thousands of years later says this canopy was gone after the flood, that is harmonious. If, on the other hand one portion of it says the soul dies and the other seems to say the contrary then there is something wrong. Further investigation is needed.


No, but to sin doesn't necessarily mean to be deserving of everlasting punishment. Since we all sin, in effect, and not all of us will be subject to everlasting punishment that much is obvious. The only people or beings that will be punished everlasting are those who don't want to fit harmoniously into Jehovah God's system, or world. That, as foretold to Adam, leads to destruction and he won't have those people fucking it up for everyone else.


Adam was a man. He wasn't supernatural.

Why do you think God, who according to the Bible, is all powerful--would allow an imperfect translation of his Word to exist? And if you do believe the Word is imperfect due to scribes copying/rewriting/changing things over time, then how do you know it's really the true Word of God?

Because all powerful do not mean that he is interested in making the Bible perfect, only than he can. It may be a sick joke, test of faith or great mystery.
As for the second question I think it's about faith not knowledge.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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24-04-2015, 11:39 AM
RE: Would you accept God if he showed everyone he existed
(24-04-2015 11:09 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  
(23-04-2015 04:55 PM)jennybee Wrote:  Why do you think God, who according to the Bible, is all powerful--would allow an imperfect translation of his Word to exist? And if you do believe the Word is imperfect due to scribes copying/rewriting/changing things over time, then how do you know it's really the true Word of God?

Because all powerful do not mean that he is interested in making the Bible perfect, only than he can. It may be a sick joke, test of faith or great mystery.
As for the second question I think it's about faith not knowledge.

Proverbs 30:5 says that every word of God is flawless. That's what Christians like to say anyway.
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24-04-2015, 11:58 AM
RE: Would you accept God if he showed everyone he existed
God has low "T". I hear he's really a "she" Diane Sawyer maybe should interview her.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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24-04-2015, 12:01 PM
RE: Would you accept God if he showed everyone he existed
(24-04-2015 11:39 AM)jennybee Wrote:  
(24-04-2015 11:09 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  Because all powerful do not mean that he is interested in making the Bible perfect, only than he can. It may be a sick joke, test of faith or great mystery.
As for the second question I think it's about faith not knowledge.

Proverbs 30:5 says that every word of God is flawless. That's what Christians like to say anyway.

It's quite funny - Bible says that god word is flawless so it must be so because Bible which is flawless word of god say so.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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