Would you choose to be born??
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12-02-2012, 08:40 AM
RE: Would you choose to be born??
(11-02-2012 11:58 PM)satan69 Wrote:  Knowing what you know now about the lack of afterlife, would you choose to be born if given the chance?.......

remember, you would have to go through everything the same. you don't get to pick different parents. you would still believe in god all over again until you converted later in life. would you do it?


I would choose NOT to be born.
My parents were somewhat dysfunctional in their own ways and were not really supportive and encouraging. My father is critical and sometimes overbearing and, I dare say, oblivious to the fact that things have changed.
My mother never really encouraged me, she made a point of often telling me how I would never be able to live on my own, that if I was to pursue art (I used to do some drawing) I'd always be poor and starving and basically seemed to think I just would be a failure...in so many words.

I am going nowhere in life and struggling to find a real job. I am not smart or particularly intelligent and I have not had any real accomplishments. All I want is a steady job. You know, go to work, do stuff then go home and be left alone.
I don't have nor want lofty goals. Just exist.

However since there is no afterlife as we know it, there is no choosing anyways because that would imply you'd have to be in a place to even exercise some manner of choice.

Humankind cannot gain anything without first giving something in return.
To obtain, something of equal value must be lost.
That is Alchemy's first law of Equivalent Exchange.
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12-02-2012, 09:32 AM
RE: Would you choose to be born??
Why would I feel guilty?
The only reason id choose no for myself if my daughter had never been born is because my life has been fraught with some rather terrible circumstance. These circumstances aren't likely to happen to my daughter. Matter of fact I can guarantee it.
Other than those circumstances I love life. It's amazing. You ever watch the leaves on trees when the wind picks up? Fuckin beautiful. Or a sunrise? Amazing. Just to experience nature is such a wonderful gift.
Then you add love, or the occasional adrenaline rush brought about by stupidity. The joy of discovery, of success. These things are all offset by something but can never be beaten.
Why would I feel guilt? She gets to experience do many wonderful things and for the first time. She's lucky, and I'm lucky for having her.
In reality instead of not having been born I would choose to just have my circumstances change but that wasn't an option.
I love life even in the face of its negative aspects. I love it because of it wonderful ones.

"I think of myself as an intelligent, sensitive human being with the soul of a clown which always forces me to blow it at the most important moments." -Jim Morrison
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12-02-2012, 09:46 AM
RE: Would you choose to be born??
(12-02-2012 03:32 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(12-02-2012 12:51 AM)Erxomai Wrote:  
(12-02-2012 12:50 AM)morondog Wrote:  Hey Satan you really are a depressing fuck you know that? Of course you do. Now FFS go get out in the sunshine Wink

Taken out of context, that sounds like you're a Theist. Tongue

Sounds like you're a "sounds-like-you're-a-theist"-ist.

Oh yeah? Oh yeah? Well you're a...
eh, I've got nothing. You win! Tongue

I do like that Lucradis' sweet daughter is one day going to call him a 'Putz.'

Satan, what's your deal, Dude? The fact there is no afterlife makes this existence all the more special. You're having a rough time? Yeah, me too. Therapy and anti-depressants have kept me alive. Why bother? The Thinking Atheist posted this video a while back. Watch it three times, hit yourself in the head with a spatula four times, and go out and play in the sunshine. (If it's not sunny, seriously get yourself to a Doctor this week and get started on Better Living Through Chemistry).




It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
~Izel
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12-02-2012, 10:46 AM
RE: Would you choose to be born??
As a child growing up in a baptist area of Missouri I would've agreed with you. In fact I felt that child birth was egregious at age 10. My life has been hell. I've never succeeded in fitting in with the model society asks for, and I've had many more failures than triumphs. But the thing is, I've also been there to make living possible for plenty of teens and older people who experienced some of my problems and could move on after meeting me and seeing how hard I try.

As long as I'm alive all I can do is strive with everything I have to attain something I want. No matter how often things go wrong there's always a possibility that I'll reach what I want. My most recent failure was being denied entry to Canada after years of working towards getting there to be with my partner. I'm still forcing my way back there and I'll keep trying until it works. Living life isn't about letting life happen it's about forcing life to happen. You have choices and happiness is something you reach by trying. No this does not mean you have to step on someone else, trust me I have a huge complex over the idea of ever taking opportunities away from others. I spend nights awake worrying over the people who can't find jobs when I have a job.

My life is shit still but I don't prove that to others. Others see me as amazing and highly competent because I may have failed thousands of times, but I've succeeded 100s of times.

With a psuedo baptist view of the world no it's not worth living in at all, but if you really look at the world you'll see there's more to it than what some book said. Experiences are amazing both bad and good, the ability to experience means a lot. I would never trade not knowing even for severe pains I've suffered through my life. Experience is enriching and fulfilling.

Just remember this one thing. No matter how hard life sucks no matter what is going on. If you wished to never be born how bad would that be for those you've met? I've helped so many people live better lives. It would be the worst thing I could possibly ever do to take that back.

I'm not a non believer, I believe in the possibility of anything. I just don't let the actuality of something be determined by a 3rd party.
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12-02-2012, 10:52 AM
RE: Would you choose to be born??
(12-02-2012 12:25 AM)satan69 Wrote:  even if you cured aids, you still wouldn't remember doing that after you die. You would help alot of people with that cure, but in 5 billion years when the sun explodes, the earth will no longer exist, so your cure at that point wouldnt matter anyway. whitney houston died today. Does she care that she sold 170 million albums, and was probably the greatest female singer of all time-- before the drug problem???? NOPE

To those you have helped or touched, it makes a huge difference. Here's a story, some of you might have heard before.

Once upon a time, there was a wise man who used to go to the ocean to do his writing. He had a habit of walking on the beach before he began his work.
One day, as he was walking along the shore, he looked down the beach and saw a human figure moving like a dancer. He smiled to himself at the thought of someone who would dance to the day, and so, he walked faster to catch up.
As he got closer, he noticed that the figure was that of a young man, and that what he was doing was not dancing at all. The young man was reaching down to the shore, picking up small objects, and throwing them into the ocean.
He came closer still and called out 'Good morning! May I ask what it is that you are doing?'
The young man paused, looked up, and replied 'Throwing starfish into the ocean.'
'I must ask, then, why are you throwing starfish into the ocean?' asked the somewhat startled wise man.
To this, the young man replied, 'The sun is up and the tide is going out. If I don't throw them in, they'll die.'
Upon hearing this, the wise man commented, 'But, young man, do you not realize that there are miles and miles of beach and there are starfish all along every mile? You can't possibly make a difference!'
At this, the young man bent down, picked up yet another starfish, and threw it into the ocean. As it met the water, he said, 'It made a difference for that one.'

Welcome to science. You're gonna like it here - Phil Plait

Have you ever tried taking a comfort blanket away from a small child? - DLJ
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12-02-2012, 11:22 AM
RE: Would you choose to be born??
(12-02-2012 10:52 AM)robotworld Wrote:  
(12-02-2012 12:25 AM)satan69 Wrote:  even if you cured aids, you still wouldn't remember doing that after you die. You would help alot of people with that cure, but in 5 billion years when the sun explodes, the earth will no longer exist, so your cure at that point wouldnt matter anyway. whitney houston died today. Does she care that she sold 170 million albums, and was probably the greatest female singer of all time-- before the drug problem???? NOPE

To those you have helped or touched, it makes a huge difference. Here's a story, some of you might have heard before.

Once upon a time, there was a wise man who used to go to the ocean to do his writing. He had a habit of walking on the beach before he began his work.
One day, as he was walking along the shore, he looked down the beach and saw a human figure moving like a dancer. He smiled to himself at the thought of someone who would dance to the day, and so, he walked faster to catch up.
As he got closer, he noticed that the figure was that of a young man, and that what he was doing was not dancing at all. The young man was reaching down to the shore, picking up small objects, and throwing them into the ocean.
He came closer still and called out 'Good morning! May I ask what it is that you are doing?'
The young man paused, looked up, and replied 'Throwing starfish into the ocean.'
'I must ask, then, why are you throwing starfish into the ocean?' asked the somewhat startled wise man.
To this, the young man replied, 'The sun is up and the tide is going out. If I don't throw them in, they'll die.'
Upon hearing this, the wise man commented, 'But, young man, do you not realize that there are miles and miles of beach and there are starfish all along every mile? You can't possibly make a difference!'
At this, the young man bent down, picked up yet another starfish, and threw it into the ocean. As it met the water, he said, 'It made a difference for that one.'

I know this story...Reverend Erxomai used it more than once as a sermon illustration about Election and God's Grace. Big Grin

But it makes an excellent illustration of your point!

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
~Izel
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12-02-2012, 05:43 PM
RE: Would you choose to be born??
I would choose to be born, easily. I'm also a little sceptical of the amount of people who say they wouldn't want to be born and I'm not convinced all of you would erase your existence if given the option.

Best and worst of Ferdinand .....
Best
Ferdinand: We don't really say 'theist' in Alabama. Here, you're either a Christian, or you're from Afghanistan and we fucking hate you.
Worst
Ferdinand: Everyone from British is so, like, fucking retarded.
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12-02-2012, 07:26 PM
RE: Would you choose to be born??
Sigh, apparently if I choose not to decide, I still have made a choice. ... Not that I'm a big fan of free will, I think that's as big a sack of shit as the promise of a postmortem preservation of identity.




As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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12-02-2012, 09:29 PM
RE: Would you choose to be born??
(12-02-2012 05:43 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  I'm also a little skeptical of the amount of people who say they wouldn't want to be born and I'm not convinced all of you would erase your existence if given the option.

Oh yes. Believe me, I most certainly would.
My existence doesn't mean anything, why should it?

Humankind cannot gain anything without first giving something in return.
To obtain, something of equal value must be lost.
That is Alchemy's first law of Equivalent Exchange.
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12-02-2012, 09:39 PM (This post was last modified: 12-02-2012 09:44 PM by Thomas.)
RE: Would you choose to be born??
(11-02-2012 11:36 PM)satan69 Wrote:  Since everyone is forced here by needy adults, that want a doll to control for 18 years, would you allow yourself to be forced here.

I see it inside out.
My parents fucked up when they allowed me to be born and I've made their lives a living hell ever sense. Biggest mistake they evey made and they will tell you that.

It's also the hell that I put the innocent bystanders through that makes their remorse even deeper.
You were born, but through experience wish you were not born, so you are unborn.
Now you are not born and don't have any negative experience, so wish to be born.

The old gods are dead, let's invent some new ones before something really bad happens.
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