Would you claim a god doesn't exist for sure?
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26-12-2014, 07:15 AM
RE: Would you claim a god doesn't exist for sure?
(23-12-2014 12:35 PM)Autumnflowers Wrote:  So many that i have talked to on other sites speak of how they know a god doesn't exist
I don't agree or disagree as i honestly don't know. But isn't wrong to say you "Know" a god exists just like it's wrong to say you "Don't know a god exists?" Because in reality we can say we know but we haven't yet to die and figure it out sure more evidence supports this to be not possible, however we can't say for sure can we?
On your half, would you ever say for sure if a god did or didn't exist?
I feel as if i wouldn't because i feel like i couldn't ever know for sure.
Please give a "Why or why not do you think or don't think it's possible to claim if a god fully exists or not"

Strictly for me in a "semantic" "technical" sense no one has lived the future. But I hate that as an argument as "see see you admit you don't know".

When you take into account science, and the fact there is no evidence for a non material fictional sky hero with a magic wand, and you have tons of evidence that humans merely make them up, it is clear what is going on.

It isn't worth considering with what we know now. "Technically" invisible pink unicorns "might" exist since we have not lived the entire future, but how much time do you waste clinging to that extremely highly unlikely probability?

That is why I call myself an "agnostic atheist". The "agnostic" part only refers to the future and in a very semantic technical sense. But currently I do say there is no god and unless evidence presents itself, which I am not holding my breath over, I am and will remain an atheist.

With our best scientific data today, and our knowledge that humans make up gods, right now I would say it is not worth considering and an idea worth scrapping. It is merely a reflection of our own narcissism and fear of death.

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26-12-2014, 07:18 AM
RE: Would you claim a god doesn't exist for sure?
P1. 95% of Chinese people are lactose intolerant.
P2. Jackie is Chinese.
C. Therefore Jackie is lactose intolerant.

Assume that both premeses are true. The argument is invalid because Jackie could be one of the 5% Chinese people that are not lactose intolerant. However, this isn't to say that the argument is garbage. What it lacks in validity it makes up for it in it's inductive strength. The objective of a thinker is to make rational decisions. Because the inductive strenght is high, it is therefore rational to believe that Jackie is lactose intolerant even though we don't have access to that information. So long as we've made a rational decision based off of the information, we have nothing to worry about.

Apply the same principle to the god debate.

8000 years before Jesus, the Egyptian god Horus said, "I am the way, the truth, the life."
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26-12-2014, 07:18 AM
RE: Would you claim a god doesn't exist for sure?
(26-12-2014 06:45 AM)Rahn127 Wrote:  Lack of belief is built around truth and the idea that truth must be supported by evidence.

When you have a belief that isn't supported by truth, then it is probably supported by lies.

Gullibility is believing something without evidence.
Faith is believing something without evidence.

Your own religion is filled with lies and yet you believe that the devil is the one who deceives. Perhaps you should take a closer look at who you are really worshipping.

components of religion:
1. wild and untestable speculative claims by primitive and hallucinatory men
2. sustained by arousing the need for cognitive closure
3. supporting human tendency for agenticity via the above
4. using fancy rhetorical gibberish to ensure blind obedience and support to a forgone conclusion
5. ensuring subjects reject and are even fear the possibility of anything that doesn't align with anything in relations to, incidental to aforementioned
6. make subjects see said naive untestable concepts as a defining feature of social behaviors when there exists no connection
7. threaten subjects with suffering in some form which will arise (according to them) when the subject doesn't follow the rules they made up
8. ad infinitum
9. I'm gonna get something to eat
10. I got homework to finish
11. 9 and 10 have nothing to do with religion
12. neither does 11 or 12
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26-12-2014, 09:45 AM
RE: Would you claim a god doesn't exist for sure?
(25-12-2014 06:57 PM)Baba Bozo Wrote:  
(25-12-2014 06:53 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  I have a better idea. Since you're so gung-ho on the idea (of accomplishing things by sitting there doing nothing), and imply that you have actually tried it, why don't you give us a report? Let us know what you've accomplished by that method.

Because I'm not in the business of spoon feeding the lazy.

Do you realize how asinine and condescending that sounds? Imagine a scientist finding a cure for cancer, announcing that he's found a cure, and then saying "But I'm not going to tell anyone what it is. I don't want to spoon feed you. You'll have to discover it for yourselves like I did." He would have to be the world's biggest asshole.

Usually, people who actually have found a better way (or who even think they have) can't wait to tell the world about it. My guess is that you have nothing. You just want to taunt some atheists and feel superior. "You guys are doing it all wrong -- I know the right way, but I'm not telling. Nyaah nyaah, nyaah nyaah!" I call bullshit. You ain't got nothin'. You're just being a dick.
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26-12-2014, 09:52 AM
RE: Would you claim a god doesn't exist for sure?
(26-12-2014 09:45 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(25-12-2014 06:57 PM)Baba Bozo Wrote:  Because I'm not in the business of spoon feeding the lazy.

Do you realize how asinine and condescending that sounds? Imagine a scientist finding a cure for cancer, announcing that he's found a cure, and then saying "But I'm not going to tell anyone what it is. I don't want to spoon feed you. You'll have to discover it for yourselves like I did." He would have to be the world's biggest asshole.

Usually, people who actually have found a better way (or who even think they have) can't wait to tell the world about it. My guess is that you have nothing. You just want to taunt some atheists and feel superior. "You guys are doing it all wrong -- I know the right way, but I'm not telling. Nyaah nyaah, nyaah nyaah!" I call bullshit. You ain't got nothin'. You're just being a dick.

Him being a dick is something I seen pages ago, and why I didn't bother with him. Not sure why anyone else is responding to him. His reasoning is well off the mark, and rationale non-existent. He has successfully derailed an otherwise excellent discussion.

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26-12-2014, 09:55 AM
RE: Would you claim a god doesn't exist for sure?
(26-12-2014 09:52 AM)Free Wrote:  
(26-12-2014 09:45 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  Do you realize how asinine and condescending that sounds? Imagine a scientist finding a cure for cancer, announcing that he's found a cure, and then saying "But I'm not going to tell anyone what it is. I don't want to spoon feed you. You'll have to discover it for yourselves like I did." He would have to be the world's biggest asshole.

Usually, people who actually have found a better way (or who even think they have) can't wait to tell the world about it. My guess is that you have nothing. You just want to taunt some atheists and feel superior. "You guys are doing it all wrong -- I know the right way, but I'm not telling. Nyaah nyaah, nyaah nyaah!" I call bullshit. You ain't got nothin'. You're just being a dick.

Him being a dick is something I seen pages ago, and why I didn't bother with him. Not sure why anyone else is responding to him. His reasoning is well off the mark, and rationale non-existent. He has successfully derailed an otherwise excellent discussion.

I'm glad we can agree on something.

Big Grin
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26-12-2014, 09:58 AM
RE: Would you claim a god doesn't exist for sure?
(26-12-2014 09:55 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(26-12-2014 09:52 AM)Free Wrote:  Him being a dick is something I seen pages ago, and why I didn't bother with him. Not sure why anyone else is responding to him. His reasoning is well off the mark, and rationale non-existent. He has successfully derailed an otherwise excellent discussion.

I'm glad we can agree on something.

Big Grin

I said be was being a dick first, I call dibs.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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26-12-2014, 01:53 PM
RE: Would you claim a god doesn't exist for sure?
Proof that the god of Christianity and Islam does not exist:

Me: Can god put you in a place where he has no power over you?
Christian/Muslim: No.
Me: Then he is not omnipotent.
Christian/Muslim: I mean Yes he can.
Me: Then he is not omnipotent.

Simple. It is impossible to have an "omnipotent" "anything".

The existence of thor would be more plausible.
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26-12-2014, 04:10 PM
RE: Would you claim a god doesn't exist for sure?
(25-12-2014 06:23 PM)Baba Bozo Wrote:  It's not at all meaningless to know whether one has a tool which is capable of doing a particular job.

Some people will come to the conclusion that there is no tool qualified to answer the god question. This group will then divide in to one of two camps.

1) Some people will say if there is no way to answer the question, never mind about this, and they will redirect their attention to other topics which can be answered. >SNIP<

2) Other people will accept they can't go down one path, finding answers, and so they will seek out other ways to continue the inquiry.

Emphasis mine.

By your own definition, the first group is doing the sensible thing. Giving up on an evident exercise in futility. They sweep the fragments of the glass into the dustbin and concede that it's broken beyond repair. Time to buy a new glass.

The second group is deluded, pursuing a goal that you have defined as unobtainable. They'll stop smashing the glass with the hammer only to smash it with a screwdriver. The worst will claim that the glass has been made whole and insist that you put shards in your mouth.

---
Flesh and blood of a dead star, slain in the apocalypse of supernova, resurrected by four billion years of continuous autocatalytic reaction and crowned with the emergent property of sentience in the dream that the universe might one day understand itself.
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26-12-2014, 04:23 PM
RE: Would you claim a god doesn't exist for sure?
(25-12-2014 07:11 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  Since reason can’t be used as a method to answer the god question....

Not what I said, but anyway, moving along....

Quote:Based on all the claims other humans have made regarding said god none have withstood scientific inquiry.

This is relevant, or not, depending on whether scientific inquiry is found to be qualified to answer the question, an issue no one here is willing to investigate.

Quote: Is this method qualified to answer man-made claims of the mystical and supernatural? I think it is, I think it’s the only way we have to come to a conclusion of man-made claims.

For the um, at least the 19th time, if reason is the only or best way we have to come to a conclusion on god questions DOES NOT automatically equal it being qualified to do so.

For a long time holy books were the only way people had to answer these questions. Did that make holy books automatically qualified to provide useful answers?

Do you see how you instantly get and agree with the holy book example, but won't apply the very same analysis to your chosen authority, human reason and science?

When posters abandon their loyalty to their own stated principles (reason in this case) they become easy targets for dickheads.
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