Would you claim a god doesn't exist for sure?
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23-12-2014, 04:05 PM
RE: Would you claim a god doesn't exist for sure?
(23-12-2014 12:38 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  I don't know if there isn't a "god" (for lack of better word) type deity thing...

What I do know is all religions were invented by people (mostly men).

The "bible" is nothing but a collection of older myths repackaged by people in the bronze age.

And you can sure tell they were all invented by men. God is a father figure with power, god creates a male first then the female is an afterthought. It's all male oriented.

I propose that the reason god is male in so many cultures is because women were out scrubbing shitty laundry on the rocks and hauling buckets of water from the nearby river, cooking, cleaning , giving birth, breastfeeding and generally working from dawn to dusk.... which means they didn't have time to sit around and invent gods.

If women had invented gods those gods would be much more practical. Like the god of laundry. He comes down and does your laundry for you or something like that.

Yup, men invented god that's for sure.

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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23-12-2014, 04:08 PM
RE: Would you claim a god doesn't exist for sure?
Definition has been mentioned.
"Perfection" is harder, and this is pushed by most religions.
How can evolving finite beings understand "perfection"

If we say god is ineffable (unknowable) how do we learn?
If we say god is in a state of flux (improving) the theists say
'why support such a god?
Is 'perfection' possible even in terms of the universe?
How could such be cosmically determined: without circular reasoning?

A spiritual cosmic evolution, perhaps?
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23-12-2014, 04:18 PM
RE: Would you claim a god doesn't exist for sure?
(23-12-2014 03:44 PM)Paleophyte Wrote:  
(23-12-2014 03:31 PM)Autumnflowers Wrote:  I'm not assuming. I'm asking because i'm not sure about anything really.
I'm not even a person who has read the bible as of yet so i don't know much on the topics. I came to this site out of pure wanting to relate to people and talk but be open to all possibility's as of the moment. I'm not sure what the word Necssitates mean or what you're getting at when you said what you did do you mind explaining?
I'm not to good on bigger words but i try Smile

OK, time for some Bible Study. Evil_monster

Read Genesis 1, 2 and 3.
  • How many different writing styles did you spot?
  • In the story of The Fall, who tells the truth about The Tree of Knowledge
  • Who lies about it?
  • What reason does God give for expelling Adam and Eve from Eden?
Enjoy!

I don't have a bible and unless i find audio books i'm really not interested, i wouldn't understand it anyways.
I already think it's all shit, but i'm still angostic
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23-12-2014, 04:36 PM (This post was last modified: 23-12-2014 05:13 PM by Free.)
RE: Would you claim a god doesn't exist for sure?
(23-12-2014 02:50 PM)Autumnflowers Wrote:  
(23-12-2014 02:17 PM)Free Wrote:  Because of all the hundreds and thousands of different supposed gods that have come and gone throughout human history- and not one of them ever proven to actually exist as a deity- there is absolutely no evidence to support a positive claim that God exists, and no evidence to support a claim that any god could possibly exist.

When all available evidence- or lack thereof- points to absolute non-existence, then the intellectually honest thing to say according to the current state of our knowledge is that God does not exist.

Anything short of that must have some evidence to support it, and that includes any statement that says "it's possible."

It's only possible when there is evidence or solid reasoning to support it. If there is no evidence, then claiming it to still be possible seems unreasonable to me.

I'll state again i'm agnostic however i can't say everything can be proven because in a sense even we know that already. It's kinda twisted in saying that however it's how i honestly see it. I don't think anythings that good of a point without evidence though Undecided so don't get me wrong. I can hear it now everyone going (You're nuts to me behind there breath Drinking Beverage I honestly, enjoy hearing everyone's thoughts though i just can't rap my head around saying Yes or no to something for sure.

All I am saying is that it is my opinion that it is more intellectually honest to take a position either way.

To me, even the words "I don't know" in regards to the existence of something are warranted when the existence of something has some degree of evidence to support its existence.

But when we say "I don't know" in regards to something that does not have a shred of evidence to support its existence, it seems to me to be an intentional avoidance of talking a position either way. Perhaps we could make a slight analogy so that you may understand.

Let us pretend that there are 2 people who walk into a completely empty room, and they are having a conversation.

Jack, while pointing to the middle of the room says, "Can you see the elephant?"
John, looking at the middle of the room says, "What are you talking about? The room is empty!"

So which is more honest:

Do you think John should say:

1. "It is possible there is an elephant in the room?"

2. "There's no elephant in the room?"

To me, it's a matter of being honest, but if John said "I don't know" is the same as saying, "I don't know if there's an elephant in the room."

But you KNOW there's no elephant in the room, so stand by what you know, not by what you do not know.

Therefore, the same principle applies to the God situation. Just like there is no evidence that an elephant exists in the room, there is no evidence that any kind of God exists.

Hence, positively claiming that there is no God is no different than John positively claiming there is no elephant in the room.

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23-12-2014, 04:52 PM
RE: Would you claim a god doesn't exist for sure?
(23-12-2014 04:18 PM)Autumnflowers Wrote:  
(23-12-2014 03:44 PM)Paleophyte Wrote:  OK, time for some Bible Study. Evil_monster

Read Genesis 1, 2 and 3.
  • How many different writing styles did you spot?
  • In the story of The Fall, who tells the truth about The Tree of Knowledge
  • Who lies about it?
  • What reason does God give for expelling Adam and Eve from Eden?
Enjoy!

I don't have a bible and unless i find audio books i'm really not interested, i wouldn't understand it anyways.
I already think it's all shit, but i'm still angostic

Click on the little links in blue. Seriously, who buys a Bible when the Fundies have put every conceivable version online for free? What a waste of perfectly good porn bandwidth.

I know that they call them Chapters but they're what real people call pages. Yes, it's BS but if you read those three pages with a critical eye it becomes blindingly obvious why major chunks of theology is BS. Great fun with apologists. And those are soft questions. Barely fill-in-the-bunk. Almost multiple-guess.

---
Flesh and blood of a dead star, slain in the apocalypse of supernova, resurrected by four billion years of continuous autocatalytic reaction and crowned with the emergent property of sentience in the dream that the universe might one day understand itself.
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23-12-2014, 04:52 PM
RE: Would you claim a god doesn't exist for sure?
(23-12-2014 12:35 PM)Autumnflowers Wrote:  So many that i have talked to on other sites speak of how they know a god doesn't exist
I don't agree or disagree as i honestly don't know. But isn't wrong to say you "Know" a god exists just like it's wrong to say you "Don't know a god exists?" Because in reality we can say we know but we haven't yet to die and figure it out sure more evidence supports this to be not possible, however we can't say for sure can we?
On your half, would you ever say for sure if a god did or didn't exist?
I feel as if i wouldn't because i feel like i couldn't ever know for sure.
Please give a "Why or why not do you think or don't think it's possible to claim if a god fully exists or not"

I would answer that Yahweh, Jehovah, and Allah are simply the biggest turds in the cesspool of religion. Ignorant humanity has always been in the practice of creating gods and then murdering them. It makes them feel powerful. The solution is not to quit murdering them, but to stop creating them.

If we believe absurdities, we shall commit atrocities.--Voltaire.

"To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason is like administering medicine to the dead." --Thomas Paine.
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23-12-2014, 05:12 PM
RE: Would you claim a god doesn't exist for sure?
(23-12-2014 04:36 PM)Free Wrote:  
(23-12-2014 02:50 PM)Autumnflowers Wrote:  I'll state again i'm agnostic however i can't say everything can be proven because in a sense even we know that already. It's kinda twisted in saying that however it's how i honestly see it. I don't think anythings that good of a point without evidence though Undecided so don't get me wrong. I can hear it now everyone going (You're nuts to me behind there breath Drinking Beverage I honestly, enjoy hearing everyone's thoughts though i just can't rap my head around saying Yes or no to something for sure.

All I am saying is that it is my opinion that it is more intellectually honest to take a position either way.

To me, even the words "I don't know" in regards to the existence of something are warranted when the existence of something has some degree of evidence to support its existence.

But when we say "I don't know" in regards to something that does not have a shred of evidence to support its existence, it seems to me to be an intentional avoidance of talking a position either way. Perhaps we could make a slight analogy so that you may understand.

Let us pretend that there are 2 people who walk into a completely empty room, and they are having a conversation.

Jack, while pointing to the middle of the room says, "Can you see the elephant?"
John, looking at the middle of the room says, "What are you talking about? The room is empty!"

So which is more honest:

Do you think John should say:

1. "It is possible there is an elephant in the room?"

2. "There's no elephant in the room?"

To me, it's a matter of being honest, and saying "I don't know" is the same as saying, "I don't know if there's an elephant in the room."

But you KNOW there's no elephant in the room, so stand by what you know, not by what you do not know.

I don’t think that’s a proper analogy for several reasons, we know what elephants look like and that elephants are not invisible.

Instead let’s say this:

Let us pretend that there are 2 people who walk into a completely empty room, and they are having a conversation.

Jack, while pointing to the middle of the room says, “Can you feel the presence of an *alien life form?”
John, looking at the middle of the room says, “Dude, you’re creeping me out.”

So which is more honest:

Do you think John should say:

1. “Maybe there is an alien life form in the room, but I need proof before I believe it.”

2. “There’s no alien life form in the room.”

To me it’s a matter of being honest, and saying “I can’t be 100% sure if there’s an alien life form in the room because while alien life forms have never been conclusively proven to exist I’ll keep an open mind and wait to see if you can prove that there is. In the meantime I’m going to assume that there isn’t an alien life form in the room.”

*I just couldn’t help myself Cool

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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23-12-2014, 05:14 PM
RE: Would you claim a god doesn't exist for sure?
(23-12-2014 05:12 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  
(23-12-2014 04:36 PM)Free Wrote:  All I am saying is that it is my opinion that it is more intellectually honest to take a position either way.

To me, even the words "I don't know" in regards to the existence of something are warranted when the existence of something has some degree of evidence to support its existence.

But when we say "I don't know" in regards to something that does not have a shred of evidence to support its existence, it seems to me to be an intentional avoidance of talking a position either way. Perhaps we could make a slight analogy so that you may understand.

Let us pretend that there are 2 people who walk into a completely empty room, and they are having a conversation.

Jack, while pointing to the middle of the room says, "Can you see the elephant?"
John, looking at the middle of the room says, "What are you talking about? The room is empty!"

So which is more honest:

Do you think John should say:

1. "It is possible there is an elephant in the room?"

2. "There's no elephant in the room?"

To me, it's a matter of being honest, and saying "I don't know" is the same as saying, "I don't know if there's an elephant in the room."

But you KNOW there's no elephant in the room, so stand by what you know, not by what you do not know.

I don’t think that’s a proper analogy for several reasons, we know what elephants look like and that elephants are not invisible.

Instead let’s say this:

Let us pretend that there are 2 people who walk into a completely empty room, and they are having a conversation.

Jack, while pointing to the middle of the room says, “Can you feel the presence of an *alien life form?”
John, looking at the middle of the room says, “Dude, you’re creeping me out.”

So which is more honest:

Do you think John should say:

1. “Maybe there is an alien life form in the room, but I need proof before I believe it.”

2. “There’s no alien life form in the room.”

To me it’s a matter of being honest, and saying “I can’t be 100% sure if there’s an alien life form in the room because while alien life forms have never been conclusively proven to exist I’ll keep an open mind and wait to see if you can prove that there is. In the meantime I’m going to assume that there isn’t an alien life form in the room.”

*I just couldn’t help myself Cool

*Loads the gun and cocks the trigger*

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23-12-2014, 05:17 PM
RE: Would you claim a god doesn't exist for sure?
(23-12-2014 05:14 PM)Free Wrote:  *Loads the gun and cocks the trigger*

Big Grin

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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23-12-2014, 05:22 PM
RE: Would you claim a god doesn't exist for sure?
(23-12-2014 05:12 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  “Dude, you’re creeping me out.”

This is the most honest response. The other candidate responses only address something that isn't the point just at that moment, which is that a friend has suddenly let spill evidence that his marbles are in free fall, which would creep anyone out.
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