Would you rather be a vegan or a vegetarian
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25-06-2014, 01:53 PM
Would you rather be a vegan or a vegetarian
(25-06-2014 01:24 PM)ThePaleolithicFreethinker Wrote:  
(25-06-2014 01:18 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Yes, demonstrably so.

Yup, plus if you are me you are allergic to seeds,nuts and eggs, and hate the taste of beans and soy, meat is the only way to get protein.

I don't know how far your dietary restrictions go, but if one really truly can't live on a plant based diet then I sympathize. Your health and well being comes first.
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25-06-2014, 01:54 PM
RE: Would you rather be a vegan or a vegetarian
(25-06-2014 01:51 PM)cjlr Wrote:  
(25-06-2014 01:46 PM)Hobbitgirl Wrote:  I just wonder where the limit ends up being. Plant life is of course different from animal life...but its life.

At certain levels the distinction becomes very fuzzy indeed.
(like what about fungi?)

Or that many, many farmed plants are pollinated by kept bees, as I mentioned earlier. Is keeping a bee better than keeping a chicken? Is it something people just don't know? Is it a matter of keeping principles only where convenient?

Or we might consider which animals can "suffer" (a necessary condition for speaking of things like "torture")...

Exactly. I dont understand vegans that go around spewing how they dont harm when they do harm...its just a different harm. Just cause the life is different really doesnt make that much of a difference to me....if that makes sense?
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25-06-2014, 01:58 PM
Would you rather be a vegan or a vegetarian
(25-06-2014 01:51 PM)cjlr Wrote:  
(25-06-2014 01:46 PM)Hobbitgirl Wrote:  I just wonder where the limit ends up being. Plant life is of course different from animal life...but its life.

At certain levels the distinction becomes very fuzzy indeed.
(like what about fungi?)

Or that many, many farmed plants are pollinated by kept bees, as I mentioned earlier. Is keeping a bee better than keeping a chicken? Is it something people just don't know? Is it a matter of keeping principles only where convenient?

Or we might consider which animals can "suffer" (a necessary condition for speaking of things like "torture")...

Splitting hairs.
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25-06-2014, 02:10 PM
RE: Would you rather be a vegan or a vegetarian
(25-06-2014 01:58 PM)KyleRuby Wrote:  Splitting hairs.

Oh, it's anything but.

It's the foundation on which your pretense to moral superiority rests.

Since you have already acknowledged that the absolutist stance is untenable, and since you have already admitted that all differences are differences in degree...

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25-06-2014, 02:10 PM
RE: Would you rather be a vegan or a vegetarian
EDIT: double post (dang unstable forum).
If a mod wants to delete this one, knock yourselves out.

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25-06-2014, 02:14 PM (This post was last modified: 25-06-2014 02:22 PM by KyleRuby.)
Would you rather be a vegan or a vegetarian
(25-06-2014 01:45 PM)cjlr Wrote:  
(25-06-2014 01:41 PM)KyleRuby Wrote:  Sorry. When I say it's not a big deal, I just mean it isn't complicated. It's as simple as choosing not to support the cutting of throats.

Oh, we're back to vacuous emotional appeals.

'Cause that's compelling.

Sorry if you can't deal with bluntness and honesty. I'm not one for sugarcoating things. This isn't an appeal to anything but reality. Meat doesn't grow on a tree.
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25-06-2014, 02:17 PM
Would you rather be a vegan or a vegetarian
(25-06-2014 01:49 PM)Ferdinand Wrote:  Vegetarian, since Vegans need to take a B12 and amino acid supplement because they can't get those nutrients anywhere else. The precautions to lead a vegan lifestyle are too tedious and annoying for me. The only good thing about veganism is that it pretty much eliminates the majority of foods most people are allergic to, but that's it. The rest is just tedious and annoying, as I said before.

At least being a vegetarian I wouldn't have to give up dairy products and eggs. I mean, I'd never make the change in the first place, anyways. There are way to many kick ass chicken and BBQ places down yonder in da South for me to ever think of making that decision. Fuck being healthy, send me all of the fried chicken in the world please.

Both the amino acid and protein claims are just plain myth. The b-12 thing is plausible but unsupported. If you have info (with sources) that I don't, I'd love to check it out.
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25-06-2014, 02:20 PM
Would you rather be a vegan or a vegetarian
(25-06-2014 01:51 PM)Hobbitgirl Wrote:  
(25-06-2014 01:48 PM)KyleRuby Wrote:  Sure, but I have to eat to live and I'll put my life over just about anyone else's, plant or animal.

I dont quite understand the end of your sentence. Are you saying your life is more important than anyone else?

My life is more important to me than anyone else's. That is, I'm not going to starve myself to death if the only alternative is to eat meat. I'm also not likely to take a bullet for you nor would I expect you to do that for me as heroic as it would be. That's what I mean.
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25-06-2014, 02:21 PM
RE: Would you rather be a vegan or a vegetarian
(25-06-2014 02:14 PM)KyleRuby Wrote:  
(25-06-2014 01:45 PM)cjlr Wrote:  Oh, we're back to vacuous emotional appeals.

'Cause that's compelling.

Sorry if you can't deal with bluntness and honesty. I'm not one for sugar paying things. This isn't an appeal to anything but reality. Meat doesn't grow on a tree.

Loaded emotional statements aren't "bluntness and honesty".

No foods "grow on trees" in the sense you mean. Remember what I said about agriculture?
(all agriculture? including, assuredly, whatever you're eating?)

At the very least you must answer some fundamental questions.
Is it always immoral to kill an animal? (recalling that your existence does so anyway)
If not, under what conditions is it immoral? Under what conditions is it moral?
Is it possible, in principle, to humanely raise animals for their outputs?
Is it possible, in principle, to humanely raise animals to eat?

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25-06-2014, 02:28 PM (This post was last modified: 25-06-2014 03:01 PM by KyleRuby.)
Would you rather be a vegan or a vegetarian
(25-06-2014 02:10 PM)cjlr Wrote:  
(25-06-2014 01:58 PM)KyleRuby Wrote:  Splitting hairs.

Oh, it's anything but.

It's the foundation on which your pretense to moral superiority rests.

Since you have already acknowledged that the absolutist stance is untenable, and since you have already admitted that all differences are differences in degree...

No it's definitely overcomplicating the issue aka splitting hairs. As for the absolutist aspect, it's mostly for simplicity sake. I'm sure the ethics of killing a mussel is debatable, but it just complicates things unnecessarily.
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