Would you rather be a vegan or a vegetarian
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25-06-2014, 01:10 PM
Would you rather be a vegan or a vegetarian
(25-06-2014 12:42 PM)ThePaleolithicFreethinker Wrote:  
(25-06-2014 12:35 PM)KyleRuby Wrote:  Damn everyone starts raging when Veganism comes up. Is it cognitive dissonance that makes people lash out? Do they feel threatened by people who have decided to reject the status quo for a stronger moral foundation?


Alright man being vegan does not make you more moral. I don't get why many vegans think about treating cows right, but then sit down as people who are getting shot in gang violence are ignored or not as important. Before you sit down and think about helping cows be safe, let us get pass getting our own damn species safe. KBig Grin?

This is a false and ironic assumption that I hear about a lot. That vegans-in general- care more about cows than humans. The ironic part is that the language comes right from the perspective that humans are separate from animals. Humans are animals. Interestingly enough I didn't get I to civil rights and anti-racist activism until after I went vegan. The impact it had on my world view led to greater empathy over all it would seem.

Also, one doesn't have to expend energy on being vegan, just on proactive activism and outreach. But not everyone is so inclined and I don't expect them to be.
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25-06-2014, 01:16 PM
Would you rather be a vegan or a vegetarian
(25-06-2014 01:10 PM)cjlr Wrote:  
(25-06-2014 01:02 PM)KyleRuby Wrote:  I disagree. Reducing or minimizing our impact especially where it's easy and within our means to do so is exactly the point for me.

Indeed. But only a Sith deals in absolutes.
(hint: vegans are absolutists)

Impact by what standard? Ecological? That's actually arguable. Subjectively emotive? No so much...
(and it's the far more common, when it comes down to it)

(25-06-2014 01:02 PM)KyleRuby Wrote:  I've decided to do my part to reduce demand on a less efficient and sustainable method of food production which also depends on killing and sometimes torturing that animals that become its product.

Did you not hear what I just said?

All human food production kills huge numbers of animals.

Plus, "torture" is a very emotive and unsubstantiated descriptor. That generally doesn't help.

(25-06-2014 01:02 PM)KyleRuby Wrote:  I don't have to be a nut about it and walk on my tippy toes every time I go outside to avoid stepping on ants.

No, and there's a reason conservationist publicity only deals with charismatic megafauna.

So already, in practice it's a matter of caring about some animals under some conditions some of the time.
(so much for the absolutes! but then, why maintain the rhetoric?)

(25-06-2014 01:02 PM)KyleRuby Wrote:  It's funny when people so often talk about how unreasonable Veganism is while simultaneously placing extremely unrealistic expectations on Veganism.

Unrealistic expectations like actually following the letter of their self-proclaimed tenets?

You're free to do whatever you like, but self-applying an unhelpful and essentially meaningless term might not be the best course of action.

Veganism is a philosophy of harm reduction not a claim of 100% purity which is impossible. What it comes down to is the fact that eating plants only instead of plants and animals (if all we're discussing is diet) is not a big deal. It's not that crazy.
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25-06-2014, 01:17 PM
Would you rather be a vegan or a vegetarian
(25-06-2014 01:06 PM)ThePaleolithicFreethinker Wrote:  
(25-06-2014 01:02 PM)KyleRuby Wrote:  I disagree. Reducing or minimizing our impact especially where it's easy and within our means to do so is exactly the point for me. I've decided to do my part to reduce demand on a less efficient and sustainable method of food production which also depends on killing and sometimes torturing that animals that become its product. I don't have to be a nut about it and walk on my tippy toes every time I go outside to avoid stepping on ants. It's funny when people so often talk about how unreasonable Veganism is while simultaneously placing extremely unrealistic expectations on Veganism.

Yabut, your protein is not as good as meat.

Is that a fact?
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25-06-2014, 01:18 PM
RE: Would you rather be a vegan or a vegetarian
(25-06-2014 01:17 PM)KyleRuby Wrote:  
(25-06-2014 01:06 PM)ThePaleolithicFreethinker Wrote:  Yabut, your protein is not as good as meat.

Is that a fact?

Yes, demonstrably so.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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25-06-2014, 01:24 PM
RE: Would you rather be a vegan or a vegetarian
(25-06-2014 01:18 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(25-06-2014 01:17 PM)KyleRuby Wrote:  Is that a fact?

Yes, demonstrably so.

Yup, plus if you are me you are allergic to seeds,nuts and eggs, and hate the taste of beans and soy, meat is the only way to get protein.

[Image: Guilmon-41189.gif] https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOW_Ioi2wtuPa88FvBmnBgQ my youtube
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25-06-2014, 01:29 PM
RE: Would you rather be a vegan or a vegetarian
(25-06-2014 01:16 PM)KyleRuby Wrote:  Veganism is a philosophy of harm reduction not a claim of 100% purity which is impossible. What it comes down to is the fact that eating plants only instead of plants and animals (if all we're discussing is diet) is not a big deal. It's not that crazy.

If it's "not a big deal" why do some people get worked up into such a self-righteous lather over it?

If we accept that 100% is an impossible goal... At what point do you lose your self-professed high ground?

When you're sitting at 92% and someone else is at 88%?

When you're at 80% to their 40%?

When you're at 40% to their 35%?

When you drive an SUV to pick up vegetables every day, and they eat lots of chicken but own no car?

And yet you (well; vegans generally) are still maintaining absolutist views. No meat ever. Couldn't be more absolute!

... this is my signature!
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25-06-2014, 01:30 PM
RE: Would you rather be a vegan or a vegetarian
I always wonder what happens when a vegan realises plants are alive too?
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25-06-2014, 01:41 PM
Would you rather be a vegan or a vegetarian
(25-06-2014 01:29 PM)cjlr Wrote:  
(25-06-2014 01:16 PM)KyleRuby Wrote:  Veganism is a philosophy of harm reduction not a claim of 100% purity which is impossible. What it comes down to is the fact that eating plants only instead of plants and animals (if all we're discussing is diet) is not a big deal. It's not that crazy.

If it's "not a big deal" why do some people get worked up into such a self-righteous lather over it?

If we accept that 100% is an impossible goal... At what point do you lose your self-professed high ground?

When you're sitting at 92% and someone else is at 88%?

When you're at 80% to their 40%?

When you're at 40% to their 35%?

When you drive an SUV to pick up vegetables every day, and they eat lots of chicken but own no car?

And yet you (well; vegans generally) are still maintaining absolutist views. No meat ever. Couldn't be more absolute!

Sorry. When I say it's not a big deal, I just mean it isn't complicated. It's as simple as choosing not to support the cutting of throats.
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25-06-2014, 01:41 PM
Would you rather be a vegan or a vegetarian
(25-06-2014 01:30 PM)Hobbitgirl Wrote:  I always wonder what happens when a vegan realises plants are alive too?

You're not really going there... Plants have feelings? Is that what this is?
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25-06-2014, 01:43 PM
RE: Would you rather be a vegan or a vegetarian
(25-06-2014 01:41 PM)KyleRuby Wrote:  
(25-06-2014 01:30 PM)Hobbitgirl Wrote:  I always wonder what happens when a vegan realises plants are alive too?

You're not really going there... Plants have feelings? Is that what this is?

No. (at least not that is known anyway) But they are living. Arent they?
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