Would you want to go to heaven?
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04-06-2015, 11:25 PM
RE: Would you want to go to heaven?
Thank you everyone! Your responses have been noted.
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05-06-2015, 06:04 AM
RE: Would you want to go to heaven?




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05-06-2015, 06:23 AM
RE: Would you want to go to heaven?
(05-06-2015 06:04 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  



Angel

Goddamn you. And I listened to it beginning to end.

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05-06-2015, 06:24 AM
RE: Would you want to go to heaven?
Heaven is other people. Or is that hell?

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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05-06-2015, 06:42 AM
RE: Would you want to go to heaven?
(05-06-2015 06:24 AM)Hafnof Wrote:  Heaven is other people. Or is that hell?

Yes. Drinking Beverage

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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05-06-2015, 07:01 AM
RE: Would you want to go to heaven?
(05-06-2015 06:42 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(05-06-2015 06:24 AM)Hafnof Wrote:  Heaven is other people. Or is that hell?

Yes. Drinking Beverage

Definitely hell Hobo

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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05-06-2015, 08:15 AM
RE: Would you want to go to heaven?
(04-06-2015 10:52 AM)Geopum Wrote:  Would you want to go to heaven if it were real? Why do you want to go to heaven?

Let us say that heaven was a place where you live forever and your life is basically perfect. There you are watched over constantly by an ominscient, omnipotent and ominbenevolent god who does sincerely care about your well being and ensures that everything is good.

Would you be frightened by the fact that such a being would have constant access to the contents of your mind and see everything you did? Or the fact that you'd be living forever? Does the idea of having your life being perfect, or far better than it is now, frighten you?

I find this an odd question because the proposition in question is impossible. Reason is that the overseer is both omnipotent and omniscient, both of which are impossible and put together are simply nonsensical.

But let's ignore that for a second and assume I can design my own heaven. Would I want to go there? I don't know. If heaven would involve stagnation then probably no. And let's not forget that this is eternity we are taking about. I don't want eternal existence. Should I? What would an eternal existence with unlimited resources and opportunities look like?

This is an interesting idea, but as the concept of heaven is generally understood my answer would be no. I am not interested.
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05-06-2015, 12:03 PM
RE: Would you want to go to heaven?
As a believer, I always had a lot of theoretical problems with the idea of Heaven. It seemed like such a boring place due to the restrictions Christianity placed on it. It seemed heartless because I was told my pets, who didn't have a soul, would not get to join me in Heaven. All in all, Heaven seemed like the best alternative to going to Hell, and nothing more.
When my first dog died, the teachings of Christianity taught me that my pet would not join me in Heaven. It seemed arbitrary, but also presented a very real problem. It's a similar problem to how can I enjoy Heaven when I know that my loved ones will not be joining me in Heaven.
Billy Graham said, "God will prepare everything for our perfect happiness in heaven, and if it takes my dog being there, I believe he'll be there." But this opens up a whole other level of problems. What if the Christian Cat Lady goes to Heaven and wants all 100+ of her cats to be in Heaven as well? Would the dog then ascend to perfection and never annoy you, always obey you, etc? Would an animal being in Heaven cease being the animal you loved? And for that matter, it seems that the amount of animals in Heaven would greatly outnumber the people in Heaven.
Secondly, I've always enjoyed games, (board, card, and video). Some of my favorite games included demons and other monsters. Would I then be barred from playing those games? The answer I would generally get indicated that I would no longer want to engage in those activities in Heaven. Which begged the question, what the hell am I going to do in Heaven? I don't want to sing for eternity. Am I just going to play Rock, Paper, Scissor until it's time to go sing again?
And if I play RPS, who's supposed to win? If Heaven allows for perfection, then every fucking game ends in a draw. Every move I make that makes me happy can potentially lead to someone else being unhappy. It's a paradox.
I would love to see my lost family members again, but not under the circumstances presented in Heaven's guidelines.
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05-06-2015, 12:22 PM
RE: Would you want to go to heaven?
(05-06-2015 12:03 PM)Ryan Newton Wrote:  As a believer, I always had a lot of theoretical problems with the idea of Heaven. It seemed like such a boring place due to the restrictions Christianity placed on it. It seemed heartless because I was told my pets, who didn't have a soul, would not get to join me in Heaven. All in all, Heaven seemed like the best alternative to going to Hell, and nothing more.
When my first dog died, the teachings of Christianity taught me that my pet would not join me in Heaven. It seemed arbitrary, but also presented a very real problem. It's a similar problem to how can I enjoy Heaven when I know that my loved ones will not be joining me in Heaven.
Billy Graham said, "God will prepare everything for our perfect happiness in heaven, and if it takes my dog being there, I believe he'll be there." But this opens up a whole other level of problems. What if the Christian Cat Lady goes to Heaven and wants all 100+ of her cats to be in Heaven as well? Would the dog then ascend to perfection and never annoy you, always obey you, etc? Would an animal being in Heaven cease being the animal you loved? And for that matter, it seems that the amount of animals in Heaven would greatly outnumber the people in Heaven.
Secondly, I've always enjoyed games, (board, card, and video). Some of my favorite games included demons and other monsters. Would I then be barred from playing those games? The answer I would generally get indicated that I would no longer want to engage in those activities in Heaven. Which begged the question, what the hell am I going to do in Heaven? I don't want to sing for eternity. Am I just going to play Rock, Paper, Scissor until it's time to go sing again?
And if I play RPS, who's supposed to win? If Heaven allows for perfection, then every fucking game ends in a draw. Every move I make that makes me happy can potentially lead to someone else being unhappy. It's a paradox.
I would love to see my lost family members again, but not under the circumstances presented in Heaven's guidelines.

The problem with the Christian heaven is... what do you do about family members that you love but didn't get into heaven. Are you not supposed to be sad about that? Is your memory of them wiped clean so you don't feel any sadness? Or perhaps this god gives you make believe thoughts that they made it to heaven but they aren't really there, so it's all an illusion.

If this is the case than people are more like gods pods with robots brains. ick.

Damn good thing it's all a silly fable.

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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05-06-2015, 01:06 PM
RE: Would you want to go to heaven?
(04-06-2015 10:52 AM)Geopum Wrote:  Would you want to go to heaven if it were real? Why do you want to go to heaven?

Let us say that heaven was a place where you live forever and your life is basically perfect. There you are watched over constantly by an ominscient, omnipotent and ominbenevolent god who does sincerely care about your well being and ensures that everything is good.

Would you be frightened by the fact that such a being would have constant access to the contents of your mind and see everything you did? Or the fact that you'd be living forever? Does the idea of having your life being perfect, or far better than it is now, frighten you?

I don't much like the idea of someone watching me all of the time but if I could have everlasting pot plants and rivers of beer I'd be good.
I never get those that say they wouldn't want to live forever. For me this depends on how much there is to learn. Is the universe infinite? Are ideas unending? If so then I can't really see myself getting bored. Now if there's not an infinite amount of things to do in heaven then I'd go only if I could slip into nonexistance after I got tired of doing all the same shit over and over. The weed gardens and beer rivers would hold me over for a bit But I can't really answer the question until I know what's possible to know.
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