Would you work in a munitions factory?
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30-01-2012, 08:31 AM
RE: Would you work in a munitions factory?
(30-01-2012 08:17 AM)morondog Wrote:  Is self defense a reasonable position for a country to take? Murder is murder, but if the gun is pointed at *you* and yours, can you stand idly by?

Self defense is not murder, not by any definition.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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30-01-2012, 08:53 AM
RE: Would you work in a munitions factory?
(30-01-2012 08:17 AM)morondog Wrote:  Is self defense a reasonable position for a country to take? Murder is murder, but if the gun is pointed at *you* and yours, can you stand idly by? If the pointer of the gun is some arsehole like Kim Jong Il? Maybe some can, but in that position... I will not I don't think.

morondog, self defense is not an issue in the hypothetical situation of the OP.

It is also assumed that we are all intelligent enough to know that mining the fields around Afghan villages does not contribute to our self defense. - Afghan children (primary victims of landmines) have not attacked us yet.

BTW. The US is manufacturing and deploying land mines and is one of a minority group of countries that refused to sign the international landmine treaty, initiated by Canada in 1997.
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30-01-2012, 08:57 AM
RE: Would you work in a munitions factory?
Of course. I'd choose the munitions factory at the same pay over the other 2.

“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect.”

-Mark Twain
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30-01-2012, 08:57 AM
RE: Would you work in a munitions factory?
(30-01-2012 08:53 AM)Zat Wrote:  
(30-01-2012 08:17 AM)morondog Wrote:  Is self defense a reasonable position for a country to take? Murder is murder, but if the gun is pointed at *you* and yours, can you stand idly by? If the pointer of the gun is some arsehole like Kim Jong Il? Maybe some can, but in that position... I will not I don't think.

morondog, self defense is not an issue in the hypothetical situation of the OP.

It is also assumed that we are all intelligent enough to know that mining the fields around Afghan villages does not contribute to our self defense.

My point being that justification for war is often that it is some form of self-defense. e.g. WMD - much was made of Bushes "preemptive defense" or "preemptive strike" strategy at the time...

And even now, there is a case now for working in a US munitions factory with a clear conscience - otherwise them Afghans and Taliban are gonna come get us. Ergo... self defense.

I was not aware of the mining of Afghan villages - maybe I've been living under a rock? Is this a hot topic? Hard to see how anyone could justify that. But bombs and normal conventional war materials - I can see a case for manufacturing those.
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30-01-2012, 09:02 AM
RE: Would you work in a munitions factory?
(30-01-2012 08:57 AM)morondog Wrote:  My point being that justification for war is often that it is some form of self-defense. e.g. WMD - much was made of Bushes "preemptive defense" or "preemptive strike" strategy at the time...

morondog, this thread is not about justification of war.

We can start another thread on that one if you wish.

I would like to stick to the hypothetical situation in the OP.

Maybe I should have made it a poll with yes/no answers.
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30-01-2012, 09:11 AM
RE: Would you work in a munitions factory?
(30-01-2012 09:02 AM)Zat Wrote:  morondog, this thread is not about justification of war.

We can start another thread on that one if you wish.

My apologies, was not attempting to derail... probably misunderstood the purpose of your thread.
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30-01-2012, 09:21 AM
RE: Would you work in a munitions factory?
(30-01-2012 09:11 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(30-01-2012 09:02 AM)Zat Wrote:  morondog, this thread is not about justification of war.

We can start another thread on that one if you wish.

My apologies, was not attempting to derail... probably misunderstood the purpose of your thread.

I guess it's a question of moral flexability. But for it to work I suppose you'd have to have a problem with munitions. I don't.

“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect.”

-Mark Twain
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30-01-2012, 10:26 AM
RE: Would you work in a munitions factory?
(30-01-2012 09:21 AM)germanyt Wrote:  
(30-01-2012 09:11 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(30-01-2012 09:02 AM)Zat Wrote:  morondog, this thread is not about justification of war.

We can start another thread on that one if you wish.

My apologies, was not attempting to derail... probably misunderstood the purpose of your thread.

I guess it's a question of moral flexability. But for it to work I suppose you'd have to have a problem with munitions. I don't.

Not sure whether you're addressing me? I don't have major probs with munitions... maybe landmines but I'm not a soldier or anything military so my opinion is strictly theoretical...
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30-01-2012, 10:32 AM
RE: Would you work in a munitions factory?
(30-01-2012 10:26 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(30-01-2012 09:21 AM)germanyt Wrote:  
(30-01-2012 09:11 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(30-01-2012 09:02 AM)Zat Wrote:  morondog, this thread is not about justification of war.

We can start another thread on that one if you wish.

My apologies, was not attempting to derail... probably misunderstood the purpose of your thread.

I guess it's a question of moral flexability. But for it to work I suppose you'd have to have a problem with munitions. I don't.

Not sure whether you're addressing me? I don't have major probs with munitions... maybe landmines but I'm not a soldier or anything military so my opinion is strictly theoretical...


You said you may have misunderstood the purpose of the thread. I was just saying that my understanding is that the OP is a question of moral flexibility. But that it would only require flexible morals if you (anyone) had a problem with munitions. I wouldn't have a problem working in a munitions factory for the same pay so twice as much pay is a no brainer for me. Some though, especially leftist, anti-gun people might have a problem with working somewhere that makes land mines.

“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect.”

-Mark Twain
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30-01-2012, 10:37 AM
RE: Would you work in a munitions factory?
(30-01-2012 10:32 AM)germanyt Wrote:  You said you may have misunderstood the purpose of the thread. I was just saying that my understanding is that the OP is a question of moral flexibility. But that it would only require flexible morals if you (anyone) had a problem with munitions. I wouldn't have a problem working in a munitions factory for the same pay so twice as much pay is a no brainer for me. Some though, especially leftist, anti-gun people might have a problem with working somewhere that makes land mines.

Yeah, that would be me. No problem with the pros doing their thing. Problem with people getting hurt Sad And I'd totally freak out, upon reflection, if I had to make the munitions. But I can see the necessity for war, hence munitions, hence factories etc. I kinda jumped the gun though - didn't realise Zat was looking for opinions, just waded right in with reasons why munitions factories are not necessarily morally evil. Zat, I do apologize, I should have read more carefully.
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