Would you work in a munitions factory?
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01-02-2012, 07:51 PM
RE: Would you work in a munitions factory?
I'd work in a surgical instrument factory for the same reasons as Kim.

I also view life similar to Zat but realise that this Utopia will never happen unless greed and corruption are bred out of the human psyche. IMO, of course! Big Grin

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01-02-2012, 08:00 PM
RE: Would you work in a munitions factory?
Since you said All things being equal, except the pay, why wouldn't I go for the double pay? Someone already pointed out bread feeds the troops and surgical devices fix up the wounded in order to put them back on the battle lines. Since all three vocations serve a war effort why wouldn't I make as much money to support my family as I can? The munitions are supporting the war effort just as much as the bread and scalpels, so show me the money!

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
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01-02-2012, 08:04 PM
RE: Would you work in a munitions factory?
Interesting distribution of choices.

I am looking forward to more input.
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02-02-2012, 06:17 AM (This post was last modified: 02-02-2012 06:24 AM by Logisch.)
RE: Would you work in a munitions factory?
(30-01-2012 06:42 AM)Zat Wrote:  Hypothetical scenario:

You need a job and you have three offers:

- A bread factory
- A surgical instruments factory
- A munitions factory (land mines)

All else being equal, the pay in the munitions factory is double of what you would make at the other places.

Which job would you take?

Well. Having read no posts after this... I'm going to interpret this as a question of morality. Surgical instruments. Well... that may save lives. Then again, at the same time, surgical instruments can also be used for things such as the death penalty and assisted suicide (injection and pills). So what if something you make there aids to someone's demise? Even something as simple as a scalpel can take a life in the hands of a negligent doctor. What if your blade cuts it? You could argue - "But the knife didn't kill anyone... someone had to use it for it to do that."

I can't really think of anything evil at a bread factory. You'd be making food which is good for people.

Munitions obviously is weapons designed to do something which is take lives. But how do you see it? Are you assisting in the fight against something you see as evil? Or do you see it as aiding to take life in a bad way? At the same time, sometimes the innocent are taken by them, but sometimes they are a "necessary tactic" used in wars.

None of these would bother me because someone has to do it. Depending on what the work is (physical or something else) munitions may be for me, but I'm not a physical labor kind of guy. So if it is that, then I would likely go with the job that is not manual labor. Perhaps whichever includes technology. Since they're all even.

Interesting question Zat.
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02-02-2012, 06:30 AM
RE: Would you work in a munitions factory?
(02-02-2012 06:17 AM)Logisch Wrote:  Well. Having read no posts after this...

I guess, curiosity didn't kill this cat! Big Grin

...you might enjoy reading some of the answers... Smile
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02-02-2012, 06:34 AM (This post was last modified: 02-02-2012 06:37 AM by Logisch.)
RE: Would you work in a munitions factory?
Yep, I'm going back and reading them now. Interesting to say the least Smile

*edit* after going back and reading some of the responses and statistics, interesting, I might actually reconsider my choice. Interesting responses indeed. That said, I'll leave my original response to contribute to the thread to keep it going.
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02-02-2012, 08:56 AM
RE: Would you work in a munitions factory?
Munitions factory is out. The only possible purpose of armaments is to kill and maim people, destroy habitation and livelihood. There is no corresponding application on the plus side.

Surgical/ medical instruments are tempting, because they are more beneficial than potentially harmful (any way you manipulate the hypotheticals) and there might be a challenge in precision work, maybe design. The assembly-line aspect of production, however clean and easy, appeals not at all.

On the whole, though, even if the physical work is more arduous, bread is incapable of evil ... and is so much more pleasant to be around than stainless steel or gunpowder. I could never tire of the smell of a bakery.

If you pray to anything, you're prey to anything.
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02-02-2012, 11:40 AM
RE: Would you work in a munitions factory?
I was listening to NPR on the way to work this morning and caught the beginning of a discussion on war and whether it is "bred into our genetics" or not. The interviewee had written a book, for which the premise was, "We will eventually stop waging wars." This was something I've never heard before- is war really so bred into us that it will never be removed from our global society, or can we one day purge all war from our existence?

I wish I had a chance to hear the whole thing, maybe I'll go find it on the NPR website and finish listening. It's a very interesting concept to me, the idea of getting rid of war. I think many people are like me- it seems too good to be true. We've been a warring people for too long to completely stop. There's always someone out there who wants to take from you, so you have to protect yourself.

To me this question gets to the core of that idea- if we believe that munitions are necessary because we always have to be prepared for inevitable wars, then we won't take that option off the table. But if we believe that war can be purged and we can always find non-violent resolutions to conflicts, then there is much less actual need for munitions.

I'm not quite ready to change my position- but this has me on the fence now.

What do you all think, is it possible to remove war from humanity? Is it likely? What do you think it would take to make that happen? How does that affect your decision and willingness to work in a munitions factory?
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02-02-2012, 11:55 AM (This post was last modified: 02-02-2012 12:05 PM by Zat.)
RE: Would you work in a munitions factory?
(02-02-2012 11:40 AM)kineo Wrote:  What do you all think, is it possible to remove war from humanity? Is it likely? What do you think it would take to make that happen? How does that affect your decision and willingness to work in a munitions factory?

The OP raised an individual moral question, not a sociological one. The beauty of the individual moral decision is that it is not going to affect the outcome on a global level – it will only affect your own life. The rest of the world (excluding your immediate family) doesn’t care how you decide.

This thought should liberate you to make the best decision you can, based on your OWN personal morality.

You have the following options:

1. If you think that you will feel better, facing yourself in the mirror, telling yourself that ”nothing I produced today will mutilate the body of another human being” then that is how you should decide.

2. If you can only think of the double pay, then that is your answer.

3. If you swallow all the patriotic bullshit about how you are protecting your country from children at the other end of the globe, then you are home free: you get both the double pay and the ‘moral’ satisfaction.

And, if a LOT of people think along the lines of Option #1 – then there will be no more wars.

Not before that. Undecided
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02-02-2012, 12:28 PM
RE: Would you work in a munitions factory?
(01-02-2012 08:00 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  The munitions are supporting the war effort just as much as the bread and scalpels, so show me the money!

Nope. In a debate such as this, intent is very relevant. The bread is intended to feed. The scalpel is intended to heal. The land mine is intended to kill.

If the intent didn't matter, then one could argue that growing an apple is supporting murder, since an evil witch could take that apple, poison it, and give it to an unsuspecting, innocent girl. But we have to remember that sleeping beauty is a fantasy, just like saying "working in a bakery supports war" is.

To answer the OP, I'd go with the bakery. In fact, I'd say I am among the few here that can say that with confidence, since I made a similar choice. I was once in a lucrative career. It was turning nature into concrete, and I could bear the damage I did no longer. I gave that up to persue a career in feeding people, that is much less lucrative financially, but far more rewarding in other ways.

Not the same, I know. But I'm sure you can all see the similarities. The fact is, what I do is not perfect. But it is the best I can do, and so long as my goal is to always seek to do even better, I will remain a rich and satisfied man. The key to this question for me is: Weigh the suffering caused by making half the money against the suffering caused by making the land mines. Because it is all about the suffering YOU cause (and such, the argument that the mines will be made regardless of whether you take the job, can be set aside), the answer is based on whether the suffering of others is equal to your own suffering inside your own moral construct. The answer is not so simple though. I personally DON'T see the suffering of others as equal to my own. Not a single one of you can claim otherwise without having made the ultimate of sacrifices, since we have all contributed to the suffering of others in some way. So we must instead decide to what degree we are willing to sacrifice ourselves for the sake of others. I'd sacrifice quite a bit for the sake of others. So sacrificing a well paying job (within the context of the scenario provided) is a no brainer for me.


Shit. I think I rambled there. Hope it all made some sort of sense.

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