Would you work in a munitions factory?
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02-02-2012, 12:28 PM
RE: Would you work in a munitions factory?
Isn't it the individual morals that combine to produce a sociological standard of morality?

I'd like to think that there will some day be no more wars. I'd like to think that I can do my part to work toward that goal. But I think it's a long way off.

My first post was to say that if I could ensure that there are no mines then I would work at the munitions factory, otherwise the bakery. As I think about it more, and the seed of the idea that maybe we can rid war from the world, plus the thought of playing a direct role in killing innocent people doesn't sit well with me, I've decided to change my position to work at the bakery and not at the munitions factory. I have to admit that this is what I'd like to think that I would do. What would I really do? I just don't know because I've never had to make that decision... but I'd like to think I'd choose not to make weapons.

You have a compelling argument Zat, thank you for bringing up the question! It's at least given me something to think on! Big Grin

As always, you bring up the thought-provoking questions. Please don't go away again!
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02-02-2012, 03:37 PM
RE: Would you work in a munitions factory?
Every one of you boycotting the munitions factory are just raising my salary when I work there. Thank you.
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02-02-2012, 03:39 PM
RE: Would you work in a munitions factory?
(02-02-2012 03:37 PM)Jeff Wrote:  Every one of you boycotting the munitions factory are just raising my salary when I work there. Thank you.

Very convincing argument, Jeff, thank YOU! Big Grin
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02-02-2012, 03:59 PM
RE: Would you work in a munitions factory?
(02-02-2012 03:37 PM)Jeff Wrote:  Every one of you boycotting the munitions factory are just raising my salary when I work there. Thank you.

That's ok, it's irrelevant to my decision. Smile
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02-02-2012, 04:24 PM
RE: Would you work in a munitions factory?
(02-02-2012 12:28 PM)kineo Wrote:  Isn't it the individual morals that combine to produce a sociological standard of morality?

Although it's a bit of a generalization, I would say for the most part, yes.

And as a result, the more people that choose the less "harmful" route (you guys know what I mean), the more morality leans toward a less harmful route in a societal sense. So, even though there are still those who will opt to work there (and I am not saying they are any more or less moral, so put down your pitchforks) society as a whole is affected by the individual choices we make.

I suspect that is the crux of what Zat was driving at, in his subtle and thought provoking way. It's the whole, "what can I do about it? I'm just one person, and someone else will just take the job if I don't" attitude. If you are morally ok with land mines, then power to ya. Go ahead and make them (just don't expect me to accept justifications). But if you don't agree with it, then you need to make a statement by refusing to do it, otherwise you are less moral (that doesn't sound quite right. my intent isn't to judge others morals in this case) than those who are cool with land mines.


...or maybe I don't have a clue. It wouldn't be the first time.

So many cats, so few good recipes.
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02-02-2012, 04:31 PM
RE: Would you work in a munitions factory?
In battle, in the forest, at the precipice in the mountains,
On the dark great sea, in the midst of javelins and arrows,
In sleep, in confusion, in the depths of shame,
The good deeds a man has done before defend him.

Two days before the Trinity test, J Robert Oppenheimer expressed his hopes and fears in the above quotation from the Bhagavad Gita.

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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02-02-2012, 04:35 PM (This post was last modified: 02-02-2012 04:44 PM by Zat.)
RE: Would you work in a munitions factory?
(02-02-2012 04:24 PM)Stark Raving Wrote:  If you are morally ok with land mines, then power to ya. Go ahead and make them (just don't expect me to accept justifications). But if you don't agree with it, then you need to make a statement by refusing to do it, otherwise you are less moral (that doesn't sound quite right. my intent isn't to judge others morals in this case) than those who are cool with land mines.

...or maybe I don't have a clue. It wouldn't be the first time.

Actually, you are right on target, Stark.

Once Kissinger said, in an interview, "I know I am a ruthless bastard -- but that is the way I like it".

I can respect that.

But, for crying out loud, don't bullshit me with your garbage 'justifications' because I am not as stupid as I look.

And, many people are, and they fall for the bullshit and that is one reason that the world is going to hell in a handbasket. Sad

That is why it is so vitally important to stand up for what you know to be true and right. Smile


(02-02-2012 04:31 PM)kim Wrote:  In battle, in the forest, at the precipice in the mountains,
On the dark great sea, in the midst of javelins and arrows,
In sleep, in confusion, in the depths of shame,
The good deeds a man has done before defend him.

Two days before the Trinity test, J Robert Oppenheimer expressed his hopes and fears in the above quotation from the Bhagavad Gita.

Oppenheimer wrote about his feelings after the successful first test:

“We waited until the blast had passed, walked out of the shelter and then it was extremely solemn. We knew the world would not be the same. A few people laughed, a few people cried. Most people were silent. I remembered the line from the Hindu scripture, Bhagavad-Gita: Vishnu is trying to persuade the Prince that he should do his duty and to impress him he takes on his multi-armed form and say, “Now I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds”. I suppose we all thought that, one way or another.” (Richard Rodes: “The Making of the Atomic Bomb” pg 676)
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02-02-2012, 08:11 PM (This post was last modified: 02-02-2012 08:23 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Would you work in a munitions factory?
(01-02-2012 06:54 AM)Zat Wrote:  
(01-02-2012 12:10 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  I wouldn't change a thing.
GirlyMan, you didn't actually answer my question.

If you were young again, starting out, and you had ONLY those three choices as listed in the OP (and you HAD TO choose one of them), which would you choose and why?

Fair enough. Bread factory. But not for any moral reasons. Even though I no longer eat flour 'cause of the insulin resistance, I still bake breads for the rest of the family. There's something therapeutic about the process for me.

(02-02-2012 03:37 PM)Jeff Wrote:  Every one of you boycotting the munitions factory are just raising my salary when I work there. Thank you.

There's a hiring freeze. You'll have to wait until one of us retires or dies.

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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02-02-2012, 08:33 PM
RE: Would you work in a munitions factory?
(02-02-2012 04:35 PM)Zat Wrote:  But, for crying out loud, don't bullshit me with your garbage 'justifications' because I am not as stupid as I look.

And, many people are, and they fall for the bullshit and that is one reason that the world is going to hell in a handbasket. Sad

That is why it is so vitally important to stand up for what you know to be true and right. Smile

Much heat, little light.

If you're interested in actually discussing the morality of the issue, let me know, and let's discuss it.
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02-02-2012, 09:17 PM (This post was last modified: 02-02-2012 09:40 PM by Zat.)
RE: Would you work in a munitions factory?
(02-02-2012 08:33 PM)Jeff Wrote:  If you're interested in actually discussing the morality of the issue, let me know, and let's discuss it.

I tried - you chickened out! Big Grin
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