Wow. Just Wow.
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08-12-2011, 12:15 PM
RE: Wow. Just Wow.
(08-12-2011 12:11 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  The separation of powers is even stronger than separation of church and state, and the other two branches of power aren't going to let someone like that infringe on our constitutional rights.

Well, I'm not as sanguine as you on that. If there are enough Republicans in Congress and a couple of neocon Supreme Court appointments, it could happen.

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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08-12-2011, 12:26 PM
RE: Wow. Just Wow.
(08-12-2011 12:15 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(08-12-2011 12:11 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  The separation of powers is even stronger than separation of church and state, and the other two branches of power aren't going to let someone like that infringe on our constitutional rights.

Well, I'm not as sanguine as you on that. If there are enough Republicans in Congress and a couple of neocon Supreme Court appointments, it could happen.

Your nightmare scenario could happen and be very frightening. In fact, it WOULD happen in my thread about, "What if there were no Evolution..."
But I'm pretty skeptical about extremes. My sanguinity(?) is based on the same experience I have that I know the sun will rise and set each day. Stuff like that just doesn't happen in a vacuum. There was Hitler's rise to power, but the state of the world is nowhere near what it was then to allow such a thing. And yes, I just compared RP to Hitler. But as much as we grouse about the state of the world and our nation in particular, it just ain't happening. Even if he were elected, somehow, trying to tear down the wall of separation just won't happen. He'd have to be positioned to appoint at least 3 neocons and even then, even the majority of Christians believe in separation of church and state because they don't want the state dictating what they should believe. So you'd be surprised at the number of Baptists in particular who would rise up to stop any laws that would remove the wall.

In the end, Chas, I'm just thinking out loud, not trying to argue your point. You're right in your initial statement. He doesn't understand the distinction, but I don't fault him too much for this. If you listen to him for 5 minutes on any topic, he doesn't understand much of anything. So he also doesn't understand he'll never be elected, and if by some chad counting fluke he were made president, he also doesn't understand that not a policy he wants to push would go through. Just like our discussion on Obama. He wanted to close Gitmo. He wanted to have universal healthcare. He wanted to end tax cuts for the rich. Where are these promises? Answer...the separation of powers is great when it comes to monitoring abuse of power. It's a bitch when it comes to getting anything worthwhile done.

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
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08-12-2011, 03:15 PM (This post was last modified: 08-12-2011 03:18 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Wow. Just Wow.
(07-12-2011 09:24 PM)Buddy Christ Wrote:  Btw, I just now read your name correctly. I've been calling you ludacris this whole time... but I guess that's the whole I idea.

Really? The "Dyslexics of the world untie!" didn't clue you in from the getgo?

(07-12-2011 09:24 PM)Buddy Christ Wrote:  And even more frightening is knowing how many people are sitting at home nodding their empty heads going, "Yes, yes. Absolutely correct, Rick. I am definitely voting for you."

I'm hoping we can rid ourselves of them through attrition without having to resort to more extreme measures. Wink

(08-12-2011 11:24 AM)Erxomai Wrote:  
(08-12-2011 11:22 AM)germanyt Wrote:  I still don't get why Republicans don't love Obama. He's as right leaning as a Dem can be.

1 word: Skin Color.

You nailed it. ... Wait, that's not right. That's two words. Goddam fucking racists ... No that's not right either ... Racism, there that works.

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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08-12-2011, 03:34 PM
RE: Wow. Just Wow.
(08-12-2011 12:13 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  
(08-12-2011 12:02 PM)germanyt Wrote:  Well, I hate to generalize like that. There is something def different in the thought process of people that like and dislike Obama. I'm fairly neutral. I dont' like many of his policies but also don't think that anyone from the Republican field could come anywhere close to doing a better job. They are spun by the Fox News rhetoric that they seem to love so much. They are actually convinced that Obama is a Marxist or Socialist. It couldn't be further from the truth. He is the most center-right Democrat in the Oval Office in recent history. If not ever.

Republican things Obama has done.
Spend lots of money
Extend the Patriot Act
Keep GITMO open
Continue with wars in Iraq and Afghanistan
Says God Bless America after each speech (except for Thanksgiving, oops)
Has not issued any form of amnesty for illegal immigrants like the Repub god Reagan
Has not increased taxes, in fact has lowered taxes
Bailed out the big corporations (just like Bush) and banks that Republican love so much
etc
etc
etc

I don't mind the generality at all. It explains things like nothing else. Because as you point out, many of the issues you point out should be applauded by Republicans, but they despise the man, so it won't happen. Why do they despise him? He's smarter and more erudite than they are, so they can only resort to ad hominen attacks.

Guest it depends on who is criticizing him and for what. I'd criticize the number of vacations he takes. Or his lack of ability to bring Congress together in any kind of bipartisan fashion instead of playing 'blame the republicans'. His heath care law is attrocious and he allows his party to shove non related legislation into random bills (earmarks, etc) that got passed with only partisan support in teh middle of the night.

I have other complaints but I don't really dislike him enough to go on and on about it. POTUS is a tough job and one I'm sure 99% of people couldn't handle.

“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect.”

-Mark Twain
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08-12-2011, 04:03 PM
RE: Wow. Just Wow.
At the risk of starting a "Your fault, no your fault!" argument, I think it really is a legitimate point that Obama can't get a lot done because of the division in Congress. It isn't necessarily through lack of leadership, it's because there is a blatant and even vocally expressed intention by the republicans to shut down anything and everything that Obama puts forward, even when he makes giant and unnecessary concessions.

And I share your opinion that the healthcare plan is bad, but probably not for the same reasons. My reason is that it's not big enough. It's further entrenching our (hyperbolic) enslavement to the already over-powerful health insurance industry. I would rather it be universal and government provided health-care. I would rather that instead of a company that stands to profit by not paying for a necessary procedure making a decision whether or not to pay for it.

I have a very hard time believing that any other republican would have done better- especially the McCain/Palin dynamo.

But, with that said- I have some serious complaints as well: he has no back bone, he tries too hard to please both sides and meet in the middle, he doesn't use his bully pulpit to push action, he lets republicans control the language of the discussion, etc. He shares this type of approach with democrats in general, but I think Hillary Clinton would have been much much better as president than Obama and I've had that opinion since the Primaries back in '07.
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08-12-2011, 04:04 PM
RE: Wow. Just Wow.
Wow is right.
To quote Jim Carey's character in the film, I Love You Phillip Morris:

Dodgy Fuckin' Texas.

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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08-12-2011, 04:16 PM
RE: Wow. Just Wow.
(08-12-2011 12:02 PM)germanyt Wrote:  I'd take Obama over any Republican other than Ron Paul and even RP scares me sometimes with his Christian anti gay marriage, anti abortion nonsense.

That's where I'm at, except I don't trust Paul at all. Wink

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08-12-2011, 04:17 PM
RE: Wow. Just Wow.
The 2012 election is going to be like choosing which finger to smash with a hammer.

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08-12-2011, 04:19 PM (This post was last modified: 08-12-2011 04:20 PM by houseofcantor.)
RE: Wow. Just Wow.
(08-12-2011 04:03 PM)kineo Wrote:  But, with that said- I have some serious complaints as well: he has no back bone, he tries too hard to please both sides and meet in the middle, he doesn't use his bully pulpit to push action, he lets republicans control the language of the discussion, etc. He shares this type of approach with democrats in general, but I think Hillary Clinton would have been much much better as president than Obama and I've had that opinion since the Primaries back in '07.

I've said this about Obama in the past, the hope would be that he's building structure for the second term. Clinton would have been a dictator. That girl is kinda scary. Big Grin
(08-12-2011 04:17 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  The 2012 election is going to be like choosing which finger to smash with a hammer.

Aren't they all? Tongue

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08-12-2011, 04:41 PM
RE: Wow. Just Wow.
(08-12-2011 04:17 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  The 2012 election is going to be like choosing which finger to smash with a hammer.

Ooooh, can I steal that?

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