Wrongful birth
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18-12-2013, 11:57 AM
RE: Wrongful birth
I know where I stand. Some agree, some don't.

That's what diversity is about.

If I (I, me, myself, and I) knew there was a good possibility of passing on a serious genetic abnormality that would seriously reduce the quality of life for a child, I would NOT get pregnant. There is always a risk but that is a distinct, known risk those people took, they took the risk hoping they would be one of the 'lucky ones'. It didn't work out that way. The first decision was theirs, that decision prompted everything that happened after...good, bad, or indifferent.

Now they will have enough money to put the child in a care facility and walk away, have their life back, and lay the blame fully at someone else's doorstep.

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18-12-2013, 12:07 PM
RE: Wrongful birth
(18-12-2013 11:57 AM)Anjele Wrote:  I know where I stand. Some agree, some don't.

That's what diversity is about.

If I (I, me, myself, and I) knew there was a good possibility of passing on a serious genetic abnormality that would seriously reduce the quality of life for a child, I would NOT get pregnant. There is always a risk but that is a distinct, known risk those people took, they took the risk hoping they would be one of the 'lucky ones'. It didn't work out that way. The first decision was theirs, that decision prompted everything that happened after...good, bad, or indifferent.

Now they will have enough money to put the child in a care facility and walk away, have their life back, and lay the blame fully at someone else's doorstep.

They are raising the kid. He's 5 years old now. There will be a time when they will be dead or otherwise unable to do so anymore, this child will never be independent. So now they can provide for it in the future, and it will not become a warden of the state.

Other than that, I agree they should not have gotten pregnant, but we don't know whether this was on purpose or whether a condom burst or the pill failed or what have you. It could be that protection failed.

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18-12-2013, 12:16 PM
RE: Wrongful birth
(18-12-2013 09:00 AM)Dom Wrote:  
(18-12-2013 08:10 AM)WitchSabrina Wrote:  I am a parent. And I'm not sure but I think if you did a survey asking handicapped people if they'd choose that they'd never had a life at all you might find a different answer than you propose. Even handicapped people may say 'yes I'm glad I was not aborted'. Can't really be sure - can we?

Look I don't disagree about the law suit. They wanted to make an informed decision and was unable to do so due to faulty info. I get that. I just think you either choose to be a parent or you don't. Once they made the choice to BE parents - then parents they must be - whatever that means.

Again - (because no one's commented yet) IF they wanted to be certain 100% they had the option to adopt. To me - adopting and being 100% certain was a better idea than trusting tests.

I happen to fully support abortion. I've had three miscarriages, 3 abortions and 3 live births. Abortion is often a MUCH better choice than having a child that is NOT wanted. (thinking of what the life of the child would be like etc)

Well, maybe because I am not a parent, I keep looking at this from the kid's point of view. And, it's hard to separate my own from it.

Obviously, a parent who has a handicapped child must want it even more - it is a huge commitment. A handicapped and abused child, in a bad home, that must be most horrific!

Adoption for the handicapped kid is rare. There are some wonderful people who do adopt handicapped kids, but most are wards of the state, for life.

It also depends on what kind of handicap, with many handicaps, the kid will have a life that has some joy in it. But there are also handicaps that make joy impossible.

I wonder what a survey among totally dependent, handicapped adults whose parents are nor able to care for them anymore would show us.

I have had occasion to spend some time in a home for mentally handicapped adults, a friend worked there. Some were happy as can be, happier than we could ever hope to be. These were mostly the ones who stop mental development below ten years of age. There were also permanently depressed and unhappy people, with a variety of mental handicaps. They would get angry at everything and lash out at anyone... and the saddest ones were the ones older than 40 or 50. They had given up - they understood that they would never be able to do anything they longed for. Some would refuse to get dressed, refuse to clean themselves, refuse to eat - it much looked like they were just hoping to curl up and die. That is not allowed though... so they were captives, doomed to endure. I assume they had better lives when the parents were still around, and now they were lost.

It is that experience that continues to stick with me.

Do some parents give birth to known handicapped kids just because the sacrifices make them feel self righteous? Because the occasional progress makes them very happy? Because they value a smile from their kid so much? What about the life of these kids when the parents are too old to care for them anymore? Are the parents who sacrifice so much actually being selfish?

It would be very enlightening to have a survey of adult handicapped, how they feel about it. There is a huge difference between committing suicide and wishing one was never born...

As human beings we tend to be really selfish, but I think that's only natural. It's easier to think about the pain I feel in seeing my child suffer than the pain they feel in suffering, because I can feel my own pain.
I certainly don't think most handicap people would wish to have never been born, but some would. I imagine people who are born with diseases that cause them excrutiating pain for their entire lives probably wish they were never born. I imagine people who are destined to sit there and do nothing until they die (because they cannot move or speak) probably wish they were never born.
Why don't we think about it this way, having a decent enjoyable life is important to everyone who is alive right? So is there anyone who ever wished they were not aborted? Nope. What I mean is if there is a huge risk that your child will wish that they were never born, then having an abortion does no harm. That child will never exist to be sad that it was aborted. It just seems like the safer more respectable route in some situations.
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18-12-2013, 12:19 PM (This post was last modified: 18-12-2013 12:28 PM by Adrianime.)
RE: Wrongful birth
The evolution of words and political correctness is very interesting.

Stupid, dumb, retarded, are all mostly not PC nowadays. However, I don't think that was always the case.
I had no idea handicapped was considered not PC. Is disabled PC? Challenged? It seems like no matter what the term is, eventually it will become non PC, and a new term will be created (until it ultimately becomes non PC, and replaced in the endless cycle).

No offense to anybody in particular when I say this, but this brings to mind those ridiculous lawsuits where a company gets sued for being racist, sexist, or whateverist because of some mild non PC term or picture they used in an ad or on a product. So many company apologies have happened in the last few years because a group of consumers FLIPPED OUT as if they were being personally attacked by an ad. Most of the time there was obviously no harm or anything-ism intended by the company that made the ad. All that's really happening is consumers are getting writers and artists fired for not catering to their over-sensitivities.

Anyways, that's an aside to the topic at hand I suppose.

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18-12-2013, 12:22 PM
RE: Wrongful birth
(18-12-2013 12:19 PM)Adrianime Wrote:  The evolutuion of words and political correctness is very interesting.

Stupid, dumb, retarded, are all mostly not PC nowadays. However, I don't think that was always the case.
I had no idea handicapped was considered not PC. Is disabled PC? Challenged? It seems like no matter what the term is, eventually it will become non PC, and a new term will be created (until it ultimately becomes non PC, and replaced in the endless cycle).

No offense to anybody in particular when I say this, but this brings to mind those ridiculous lawsuits where a company gets sued for being racist, sexist, or whateverist because of some mild non PC term or picture they used in an ad or on a product. So many company apologies have happened in the last few years because a group of consumers FLIPPED OUT as if they were being personally attacked by an ad. Most of the time there was obviously no harm or anything-ism intended by the company that made the ad. All that's really happening is consumers are getting writers and artists fired for not catering to their over-sensitivities.

Anyways, that's an aside to the topic at hand I suppose.

As far as I know handicap is as safe as it gets in terms of PCness. Who said it isn't PC?
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18-12-2013, 12:23 PM (This post was last modified: 18-12-2013 12:27 PM by WitchSabrina.)
RE: Wrongful birth
(18-12-2013 12:19 PM)Adrianime Wrote:  The evolutuion of words and political correctness is very interesting.

Stupid, dumb, retarded, are all mostly not PC nowadays. However, I don't think that was always the case.
I had no idea handicapped was considered not PC. Is disabled PC? Challenged? It seems like no matter what the term is, eventually it will become non PC, and a new term will be created (until it ultimately becomes non PC, and replaced in the endless cycle).

No offense to anybody in particular when I say this, but this brings to mind those ridiculous lawsuits where a company gets sued for being racist, sexist, or whateverist because of some mild non PC term or picture they used in an ad or on a product. So many company apologies have happened in the last few years because a group of consumers FLIPPED OUT as if they were being personally attacked by an ad. Most of the time there was obviously no harm or anything-ism intended by the company that made the ad. All that's really happening is consumers are getting writers and artists fired for not catering to their over-sensitivities.

Anyways, that's an aside to the topic at hand I suppose.


Yeah but thanks for the post. I just drove to TN in Nov and that's 5 states between here and there - saw the word Handicapped used still - all over the place.
So..... it's not a generation thing. There wasn't just old farts like me pulling into 7 11s or shopping malls or gas stations or restaurants.

BQ - I'm sure the rest of the world WILL catch up with what is PC soon......but for now the word Handicapped is still considered safe and respectful or it wouldn't be full force use throughout 5 states on the east coast.
Anyway
No one here said it to offend you that's for sure ((hug))

Yanno - come to think of it - if I saw a notification used moreso than others it said "Handicapped Accessible"
maybe they're trying to transition somehow? Dunno - just thought of that.

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18-12-2013, 12:24 PM
RE: Wrongful birth
And just to add some flame to the fire..
I'm strongly against the "right to die" or whatever it's called. In all but the most extreme cases, I think living (existance) trumps non existance. I mean this for those who are already born and in this world.

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18-12-2013, 12:28 PM
RE: Wrongful birth
(18-12-2013 12:24 PM)Adrianime Wrote:  And just to add some flame to the fire..
I'm strongly against the "right to die" or whatever it's called. In all but the most extreme cases, I think living (existance) trumps non existance. I mean this for those who are already born and in this world.

Why should what you think affect other people's choices? If one day you are very sick and suffering then by all means chose to stay alive and suffer. But don't try to push your opinions or beliefs on someone else. If someone doesn't want to live, then why shouldn't they have the right to die?
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18-12-2013, 12:28 PM
RE: Wrongful birth
(18-12-2013 12:24 PM)Adrianime Wrote:  And just to add some flame to the fire..
I'm strongly against the "right to die" or whatever it's called. In all but the most extreme cases, I think living (existance) trumps non existance. I mean this for those who are already born and in this world.

I've never made a decision on how I feel about that Adrianime. I tend to take a peek at that one case by case. Yanno what I mean? That "right to die" is hard to draw a firm line on in my opinion.

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18-12-2013, 12:33 PM
RE: Wrongful birth
Let's keep in mind that what is considered PC changes constantly.

Looking at context is a much better way of understanding intent.

Jumping up and screaming foul really isn't all that useful, beyond making people apologize for things that were never meant in a hurtful way.

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