Poll: Which team are you on?
X-Men - 'Let's work with the people who hate and torment us!'
Brotherhood - 'Let's show those bastards who the world belongs to now!'
Morlocks - 'Fuck this noise, I'm keeping my head down until this all blows over...'
None - 'I don't need a team, I go it alone.'
X-Men who? Brotherhood what? You damn kids and your comic books...
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X-Men or Brotherhood of Mutants?
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14-04-2016, 09:57 PM (This post was last modified: 14-04-2016 10:03 PM by Dark Wanderer.)
RE: X-Men or Brotherhood of Mutants?
Brotherhood. If I was Magneto or Professor X I doubt I would have the willpower to resist wiping out humanity. A character flaw maybe, but who gives a shit when you can manipulate matter or peoples' minds? Fuck 'em all.
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14-04-2016, 10:08 PM
RE: X-Men or Brotherhood of Mutants?
Now that I think about it, this would end up just being a vicious cycle. If the mutants wiped out all humans, you know damn well the higher level mutants would end up trying to control the lower level mutants. Then the lower mutants would end up turning on the higher ones, and it'd end up being the same thing as humans vs mutants. Endless cycle.
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14-04-2016, 11:01 PM
RE: X-Men or Brotherhood of Mutants?
(14-04-2016 12:34 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
Very interesting take on the argument.


Professor X would have mutants kneel before drunken bigots who punch them with brass knuckles and bash them with aluminum bats. Sure, he’ll send his gold and blue mutant military to intervene sporadically, but Xavier’s operations philosophy uses the superhuman potential of his X-Men as a quasi-state sanctioned police force, directed to stanch needless bloodshed from both humans and mutants, without concern for bigoted provocation. This is asinine – when mutants are cornered by bloodthirsty mobs who reek of alcoholic courage, mutants should respond to their violent provocation with violence, because the martial application of their mutant abilities can make the real-time difference between life and death. To refuse to use your own agency to protect your life is suicide. No one who can bend steel in his bare hands need ever turn the other cheek.


Agreed.

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14-04-2016, 11:11 PM
RE: X-Men or Brotherhood of Mutants?
Alone, but really, it was already pointed out Xavier's way ends in registration and sentinels. And, if going by what little I know of the current comics, isn't Cyclops running some sort of "Utopia" island a lot like Magneto's Avalon anyhow?

(14-04-2016 10:08 PM)Dark Wanderer Wrote:  Now that I think about it, this would end up just being a vicious cycle. If the mutants wiped out all humans, you know damn well the higher level mutants would end up trying to control the lower level mutants. Then the lower mutants would end up turning on the higher ones, and it'd end up being the same thing as humans vs mutants. Endless cycle.

I think in one of the "What If" comics from the 90s, they actually had the next generation of super mutant born in Magneto's Avalon and they tried to kill it. He was defending the child, screaming at them about how they were no better than the normal humans who had persecuted them and that the cycle would only continue. So agree with you on that as a possibility.

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15-04-2016, 12:03 AM
RE: X-Men or Brotherhood of Mutants?
The question is really whether there's any point to draw arbitrary distinctions like this. They are all humans and should have access equally to law and everything else. To create separate groups in the first place is what causes the problem.

Racism is the result of people saying "You black people stand over there", "You white people stand over here" - human psychology is like that. If you divide people into groups they will start to think in terms of their membership of the group. Instead of "X is an asshole" people start thinking "He's an asshole just like every other member of his group".

Unfortunately race is very easy to discriminate on, because skin colour cannot be hidden, so probably as soon as humans with different skin colours existed, there was racism.

The X-men thing. Well, I mean it's super-heroes in spandex, naturally they look different, but they could very easily blend in by e.g. not wearing spandex or their underwear over their trousers. Separating them out and making a separate group is what causes the animosity.

We have this problem everywhere in human affairs. Nerds are picked on, we have class distinctions, race distinctions - anything that we can discriminate on, we will... For me the answer is not about conciliation or aggression between groups, it's about merging the groups.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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15-04-2016, 12:26 AM
RE: X-Men or Brotherhood of Mutants?
(15-04-2016 12:03 AM)morondog Wrote:  The question is really whether there's any point to draw arbitrary distinctions like this. They are all humans and should have access equally to law and everything else. To create separate groups in the first place is what causes the problem.

Racism is the result of people saying "You black people stand over there", "You white people stand over here" - human psychology is like that. If you divide people into groups they will start to think in terms of their membership of the group. Instead of "X is an asshole" people start thinking "He's an asshole just like every other member of his group".

Unfortunately race is very easy to discriminate on, because skin colour cannot be hidden, so probably as soon as humans with different skin colours existed, there was racism.

The X-men thing. Well, I mean it's super-heroes in spandex, naturally they look different, but they could very easily blend in by e.g. not wearing spandex or their underwear over their trousers. Separating them out and making a separate group is what causes the animosity.

We have this problem everywhere in human affairs. Nerds are picked on, we have class distinctions, race distinctions - anything that we can discriminate on, we will... For me the answer is not about conciliation or aggression between groups, it's about merging the groups.

But mutations do take that to another level. Most of what currently separates humans are very superficial, like our culture or the amount of melanin in our skin; but we're all fundamentally human. None of us have the ability to transform into metal, or move through solid objects, or read people's minds. Not only that, but we're nowhere near mature enough as a species to deal with such things. Look at what divides us now, now mix in people with the potential to be born as walking atomic weapons. We're not that the point where a child with such power could be guaranteed a live without hardship and an upbringing that would make the unleashing of such power unconscionable. So without that guarantee, where do you drawn the line between the child's personal rights and freedom, against the potential threat he represent to the people around him? That is not an easy question to answer outside of a utopia.

Given our current circumstances, there is nowhere on the Earth that such a people could either live within, or otherwise be separate from, the general populace. People with these sorts of abilities would represent a real threat to the status quo, for better or for worse. Equality is a nice ideal that even now we are astonishingly far away from achieving. But then that concept would have even less value, as not even those born with wealth and power can account or match possible mutations. Now it really is a roll of the genetic dice, and you might come up 'normal', or any variety of abnormal form typical birth and developmental defects, and mutations ranging from the cosmetic to the godlike. Where does the equality come from in such a society? Where do you draw the lines between the safety of the public versus the personal rights of a single telepath? Just how equal is a normal human with one who can breath water, fly, bend steel, or any number of other fantastical abilities?

If I was normal, you're damn right that I'd fear mutants with those abilities; just like I'd fear anyone carrying around a personal nuclear weapon. But you cannot disarm a mutant, and even if you could, doing so preemptively would cross ethical lines. Likewise if I was a mutant, I'd fear normal people, because I can understand the fear of obsolescence. Regular old humans are the old model, entirely outclassed by mutants. If you let nature run it's course, natural selection would have homo superior replacing homo sapiens in much the same way homo sapiens replace homo neanderthalensis.

So much in that I'd rather be a billionaire heir than be poor, I'd rather have awesome mutant powers than not.



Fuck, now I'm thinking about the movie Gattaca again, and about how it's fundamental premises and kinda flawed when you think about them more and take them to their logical conclusions. Now I have to go make a Gattaca thread, dammit...

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15-04-2016, 01:23 AM
RE: X-Men or Brotherhood of Mutants?
(15-04-2016 12:26 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Given our current circumstances, there is nowhere on the Earth that such a people could either live within, or otherwise be separate from, the general populace.

So don't separate them out. Thinking in terms of "reality" for a moment, there will be no point at which a new race of humans emerges. If there were to be such mutations it would take a long time to speciate. With current numbers of humans as they are, to achieve physiological differences enough to create homo superior you'd have to go to an elite gay bar.

Accordingly if such mutations were to arise, the mistake is in grouping everyone together as "the other" in the first place. If you don't have a defined group of "mutants" to which you either allocate people or not, you cannot have a war with them.

Say a few kids with "special powers" are born. You treat them in a special way according to their abilities - give the girl who can control weather a job with the weather bureau for exampe - but you don't say to them "you kids are totally different from us and too dangerous to live as part of normal society" - unless they're psychos. And then you treat them as armed and potentially dangerous psychos, but *human* armed and dangerous psychos.

An example is Kim Jong Un. He's an armed and dangerous psycho who is human. If he were to be living say, as a normal human in the USA, just happening to have the ability to blow shit up, as well as being a psycho, you lock him away, but you lock him away because he's a *psycho who blows shit up* i.e. he has *acted*, not because he's *potentially* more dangerous.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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15-04-2016, 04:15 AM
RE: X-Men or Brotherhood of Mutants?
If mutants wanted their own place to live, beyond Magneto's little space dome on the asteroid or whatever. I would think him and enough other mutants with some specific powers could absolutely do enough to strengthen Mars's core and terraform the planet. I think Magneto, Quicksilver, and a couple others could do it pretty damn well. Just then add idk is there like a poison ivy like mutant that makes plants grow ridiculously well? I never recall something like that and some actually more liquid water version of iceman.. or just iceman and then pyro combining to get water. And you can make a sustained planet, why rely on shitty space stations.

There's already a Gattaca thread from like 3 months ago.

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15-04-2016, 07:49 PM
RE: X-Men or Brotherhood of Mutants?
In the Future You'll Be a Superhero and Here's How You'll Get Your Superpowers

Quote:The knock on superheroes is that they’re unrealistic. This isn’t fair. Many superheroes have powers that we are close to or will be capable of engineering for ourselves. What’s unrealistic is the way those powers are doled out. Radioactive spiders aren’t going to make anyone strong any time soon.

Throw away those old origin stories and replace them with new scientific narratives and you’ve got something closer to the truth, which is this: We’re all going to have superpowers. Here’s the order in which we’re going to get them.
Superhuman Marksmanship

Superheroic Precedent: Hawkeye

Timeline: 5 years

Origin Story: Known for shooting people dead from long distances, Hawkeye is the least impressive of the Avengers until you consider this: He doesn’t get tired and start missing. There are plenty of truly impressive marksmen on the planet, but very few who can exert themselves and shoot consistently at the same time (this is why Olympic biathletes tend to be full time competitors and Olympic shooters tend to be ex-military). DARPA is looking to change all that with TALOS exosuits. The idea behind the suits is that they will stabilize soldiers in such a way that fatigue won’t affect their shooting and technology might even augment their ability to follow targets.
[Image: hegif.gif?dpr=1&auto=format&q=75]

Telepathy

Superheroic Precedent: Charles Xavier

Timeline: Expect the consumer tech version to hit in 10 years.

Origin Story: Scientists have already made telepathy possible on a small scale using brain-computer interfaces that allow people to maneuver artificial limbs and virtual drones. In a 2014 study, international researchers achieved what they described as “brain-to-brain communication.” When electrical signals generated by the cortex were captured from the messenger through an electroencephalography. Researchers say that this test was more a proof of concept than anything, but it does point toward the logical conclusion of UI design.
[Image: xgif.gif?dpr=1&auto=format&q=75]

Super Strength

Superheroic Precedent: The Hulk

Timeline: 15 years

Origin Story: Being belted by gamma rays will turn you into a puddle of flesh, not the Hulk, but acquiring the green giant’s super strength will probably be possible soon, thanks to advances in genetic engineering and robotic exoskeletons. Last year, Chinese scientists engineered swole AF beagles with twice the muscle mass of normal dogs, and Panasonic is testing an exoskeleton that allows humans to carry 220 pounds in extra weight. A little of column A and a little of column B and you’ve got a super strong super-soldier. You better believe the Pentagon is all over it.
[Image: hulkgif.gif?dpr=1&auto=format&q=75]

Shape-Shifting

Superheroic Precedent: Vixen

Timeline: Becoming an animal? Not gonna happen. Growing back a toe like a salamander? Between 10 and 30 years.

Origin Story: While no human has successfully morphed into an animal, we do have the ability to make ourselves decidedly more animal-ish. Through biomimicry, engineering inspired by the natural world, we’ve given ourselves shark-like swimsuits and ice-picks designed after woodpecker beaks. We will no doubt take this as far as it can go. But in terms of changing our actual bodies, the closest we’re going to come to shape shifting is regenerating limbs, like sea cucumbers and lizards. As of now the biological process that would kick off the process for humans remains mostly elusive, according to researcher James Monaghan, so putting a timeframe on it is difficult, but other scientists, including Ken Poss from Duke University, think we may be able to pop out small digits like a finger or a toe in 10 to 15 years.
[Image: wikimedia-commons.jpeg?dpr=1&aut...p;amp;q=75]

X-Ray vision

Superheroic Precedent: Superman

Timeline: 20 years

Origin Story: On Smallville, young creep Clark Kent used his newfound X-ray vision to spy on a toweled Lana Lang in the girls’ locker room. The Pentagon wants the ability to do pretty much the same thing in order to spy on drug cartels. Physicists have developed a laser-based X-ray device that can detect uranium through steel, but we’re probably still decades off from having personal X-ray goggles. (This is probably for the best.)
[Image: pervgif.gif?dpr=1&auto=format&q=75]

Super Speed

Superheroic Precedent: Flash

Timeline: 30 years

Origin Story: The power of super speed — when you get to the point of breaking the sound barrier — is actually equivalent to super strength, but let’s talk about being fast. The human body can take the forces associated with running 30 to 40 MPH and prosthetics can potentially make that possible. Because this is not a critically important or pressing issue in the study of prosthetics, we don’t have these alternative limbs just yet. That doesn’t mean we won’t develop them.
[Image: flashjpg.jpeg?dpr=1&auto=format&q=75]
Ice Control

Superheroic Precedent: Iceman

Timeline: Whenever the government experiment goes horribly wrong.

Origin Story: Through a process called supercooling, water can make the jump from liquid to ice in seconds. To trigger this reaction, one just needs to take a very pure liquid — like bottled water —and chill it to about negative 11 degrees. When a ice-cube enters the mix and touches the water, it will kick off a crystallization chain-reaction and cause the liquid to rapidly freeze. That’s the party trick version of Iceman’s power.

The military version is much more intimidating. The Sandia National Nuclear Laboratory, operated by the U.S. Department of Energy, is home to the largest X-ray generator in the world — called the Z machine. When it’s not gathering data for the simulation of nuclear weapons, it can be used to create extreme temperatures via high magnetic fields. The Z machine can create ice hotter than the boiling point of water in a matter of nanoseconds.
[Image: icemangif.gif?dpr=1&auto=format&q=75]
Invisibility

Superheroic Precedent: Sue Storm

Timeline: Sometime around 2076

Origin Story: Cosmic rays won’t render our bodies invisible like Fantastic Four’s Sue Storm, but it’s possible that donning a Harry Potter-style invisibility cloak could do the trick. Cloaking tech relies on “metamaterials,” substances that reflect light all the way around an object, as though the object weren’t there. Scientists have been refining such materials since the turn of this century. Today, the material sheets are getting thinner, though hiding moving objects remains difficult and scale complicates the matter. University of Rochester optics expert Joseph Choi predicts that something able to cover a human body will take decades more work.
[Image: suegif.gif?dpr=1&auto=format&q=75]
Flight

Superheroic Precedent: Wonder Woman

Timeline: 100 years

Origin Story: Let’s talk about jetpacks. The closest we have to a functional personal flying machine right now is produced by Dubai-based company Jetman Dubai, which last year tested out the JB-9 over by the Statue of Liberty. The technology is powered by engines running on kerosene, providing upward thrust that purportedly spit out ambient air with exhaust. And the whole thing reaches speeds up to 63 miles per hour.

We’re never going to fly by ourselves, but miniaturized jetpacks are conceivable, if very very odd indeed.
[Image: wwgif.gif?dpr=1&auto=format&q=75]
Teleportation

Superheroic Precedent: Nightcrawler

Timeline: Physical teleportation isn’t going to happen, but the ability to project one’s senses isn’t that far off.

Origin Story: Experiments indicate that our brains could handle teleportation, but that doesn’t mean our bodies could. We are able to quantum teleport information through 100 kilometers of fiber optic cable, but only 1 percent of the photons actually make it. Given that Captain Kirk is made of something like 4.5 x 10^42 bits, the data transfer would end with a fingernail and a wake. This is simply not conceivable.
[Image: ncgif.gif?dpr=1&auto=format&q=75]
Time Travel

Superheroic Precedent: Hiro Nakamura

Timeline: Nope.

Origin Story: On Heroes, Hiro Nakamura blasted himself back to ancient Japan. Thanks to properties of time dilation, as you approach speeds of light, traveling forward in time compared to an outside observer becomes possible. But traveling back in time is a different ball game. It might work, in theory, were you to travel through an artificial wormhole — with the caveat you could only go back as long ago as the wormhole’s creation. Lunch dates with samurai, we’re sorry to say, are off the table.
[Image: hirogif.gif?dpr=1&auto=format&q=75]

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16-04-2016, 06:27 AM
RE: X-Men or Brotherhood of Mutants?
What can I say, I love Nightcrawler.

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