YEC student strikes again
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18-11-2013, 06:23 AM
YEC student strikes again
This time with an Eric Hovind video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N45uRsp8X2s

He asked me what I think about presuppositions.

Yeesh..... For the sake of masochism or lunacy, I responded:
_______________________
Ok X, I think my IQ just dropped a point or two from watching that video. Eric Hovind (the son of now-incarcerated for tax evasion Kent Hovind) has no real higher education other than from a diploma mill called "Jackson Hole Bible College," which apparently is based at a campsite. His videos are laughable at best, which isn't a slight against him personally, but against his apparent inability to actually understand the arguments he's making. Check into how much money he makes off of his shows and talks and see him for what he really is, just like his father was: a charlatan. Anyway, enough about Eric.

This video again is another huge misunderstanding of the process of science. Unfortunately the clip of Ken Miller had him using wording that was probably too strong for the context of what he was meaning. I wouldn't have worded it like he did. The point he made was still valid, he just shouldn't have said it in such a black and white way - "this MUST mean" etc.

Presuppositions are that we presuppose things and then base our conclusions off of those presuppositions, right? So the creationist would argue "hey, you scientists presuppose there is no god" and the scientists would argue "hey, you creationists presuppose there is a god." The problem with this reasoning is that, unfortunately neither is correct. Scientists don't presuppose there is no god. If they are guilty of presupposing anything, it's only that there is an explanation for everything. Does this seem to be a fault of science? I think without that drive, we would still be driving horses and buggies and still be trying to cure serious diseases with words and dances. What scientists do, which I've said this to you before, is start with a question and try to answer that question.

In the case of humans and other apes (it's a fallacy to ask if we're related to apes, as we are apes), the fact that these two guys can sit there and discuss how human chromosome number 2 "appears" to be a fusion of two chromosomes and totally fail to see that for what it is - evidence of our common ancestry with other apes - is just ridiculous. If you really want to improve your understanding of science, I would strongly recommend getting off the creationist propaganda videos and actually study real science. I think you might be surprised, if you're willing to view it without that creationist lens, just how much sense it makes.
_______________________

I welcome your critiques of my response. Not that it did a lot of good for him, but maybe. Hopefully.
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18-11-2013, 08:11 AM
RE: YEC student strikes again
Nice response.

I can 'hear' your frustration in your text.


As an aside, do you read other people's threads? If so, do you not like anything that has been written?

Just curious.

Smile

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18-11-2013, 08:54 AM
RE: YEC student strikes again
There is, ya know, a creationism forum. Dodgy

There is also, ya know, a "debate with theists" forum. Dodgy

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18-11-2013, 09:36 AM
RE: YEC student strikes again
I don't get on here as often as I should, as evidenced by my lost post count. My job and grad classes keep me pretty busy. I just thought I'd share some of the issues I deal with as a public school biology teacher. I did think about posting this in the creationist forum, but I don't really think I'm debating this student, as much as he may want to. I'm simply teaching him science, as well as I can anyway. That's why I posted it here.
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18-11-2013, 10:08 AM
RE: YEC student strikes again
When introducing evolution, I use some short videos from PBS.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/educat...ideos.html

There is actually a video on evolution and religion, which has had mixed results with my students.

I also use this worksheet to go with the videos.

http://biologycorner.com/worksheets/evolutionVIDEO.html

It may be a good tactic to have the student watch the videos and fill out the worksheet.
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18-11-2013, 10:16 AM
RE: YEC student strikes again
If the 44 chromosome man story is true. And it seems to be. Fuck u Son of Hovind

Theism is to believe what other people claim, Atheism is to ask "why should I".
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