YES IT IS APT to compare Trump to WW2
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
26-12-2016, 04:17 PM
RE: YES IT IS APT to compare Trump to WW2
Oh what an avalanche of bullshit!

Congrats, you activated an actual liberal when you used the butthurt expression.

I'm waiting for my car (it's getting a tune up), but I'm going to head home and pick this bullshit apart as soon as I get there.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like RocketSurgeon76's post
26-12-2016, 04:42 PM
RE: YES IT IS APT to compare Trump to WW2
(26-12-2016 03:49 PM)Whoopsie Daisy Wrote:  Well also, Hitler wasn't elected to power. That's first being we're talking about Hitler's installation into power in Germany and some comparing that to Trump, who was elected to the office of president in the U.S.

In a sense or maybe "in a sense" Trump too wasn't elected as he lost popular vote.

And Hitler didn't won chancellorship in election but it is his support among population that convinced people in power to choose him. That and their conviction that he will be controllable.

Quote:Also, Germany was decimated by communist ideologues prior to Hitler taking office.

Decimated? Communists had their little and quickly crushed revolution back in '20 and not insignificant support in '30 but that's all.

What exactly you wanted to say? I somehow doubt that communists killed every tenth German before Hitler was given power.

Quote:National socialism was a come back campaign that worked to empower the people's idea that they could all work together for self and country.

More for country and even more for race - it is race and anti-semitism that were cornerstones of ideology. Fixation on good of the race was so ingrained that Germans were willing to be silent about extermination of their own flesh and blood. So Nazism was about good of able boded "Aryans".

Quote:The extermination campaign that Hitler is known for can't happen in America for a number of reasons. Being the Legislature would never permit such a thing. And also remembering that SCOTUS tells presidents what they can and cannot do. And they'd never permit such a thing to occur either.

I'm sure Jews thought the same, Germany after all was country where law meant something.

Let's face it if it happened once then it could happen again. However fact that something can happen does not mean that it will happen nor it make it probable.

Quote:So the Hitler allusion is bullshit.

Your assertion isn't convincing even for me who thinks that comparison between Trump and Hitler is invalid.

Quote:And Hitler, by the way, was a national socialist, which alludes to democratic principles, not a republican.

Alludes to democratic principles? How exactly Hitler racial utopia which denounced both democracy and liberalism was alluding to democratic principles? By allowing political pluralism perhaps? Providing freedom of press? Not having secret police and concentration camps?

Quote:So there is always that.

Yes, there's that.

Quote:And of course Adolf wasn't a Presbyterian like Trump is. Rather, Hitler was Catholic.

Irrelevant.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 4 users Like Szuchow's post
26-12-2016, 04:45 PM (This post was last modified: 26-12-2016 04:52 PM by Szuchow.)
RE: YES IT IS APT to compare Trump to WW2
(26-12-2016 03:20 PM)Banjo Wrote:  
(26-12-2016 11:48 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  Having said that I don't think it is valid comparison. From what little I know about Trump he seems to be just a clown, not ideologue believing in shit he spew as it was case with Hitler.

The danger I see is his megalomania coupled with his extreme desire for revenge whenever he has felt wronged.

When the leader of a nation desires revenge, watch out.

The Hitler comparison brings to mind the holocaust and the slaughter in the east. Trump does not possess the level of idealism of a Hitler. This makes him no less dangerous.

"Let them hate me so long as they fear me."
Emperor Gaius Caesar Germanicus.
Nicknamed, Caligula.

I don't much care about Trump so it may be lack of information speaking but I don't think that this comparison is valid.

(26-12-2016 04:17 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  I'm waiting for my car (it's getting a tune up), but I'm going to head home and pick this bullshit apart as soon as I get there.

Already picked though I'm eagerly anticipate your input Smile

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
26-12-2016, 04:46 PM
RE: YES IT IS APT to compare Trump to WW2
(26-12-2016 03:49 PM)Whoopsie Daisy Wrote:  Well also, Hitler wasn't elected to power.

Neither was Trump.

Oh and by the way, America is not immune to the ravages of history. It's fall is already taking place. It owes China something like 163 trillion dollars.

Trump is president! This is a minor bump on the road leading to a fall.

America's biggest problem, as far as I can tell, is the immature mixture of overconfidence and hubris.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
26-12-2016, 04:55 PM (This post was last modified: 26-12-2016 05:00 PM by RocketSurgeon76.)
RE: YES IT IS APT to compare Trump to WW2
Okay, I'm back at the house. And, as promised:

(26-12-2016 03:49 PM)Whoopsie Daisy Wrote:  Well also, Hitler wasn't elected to power. That's first being we're talking about Hitler's installation into power in Germany and some comparing that to Trump, who was elected to the office of president in the U.S.

Would you care to explain to us how the mechanism by which one rises to power matters, in this type of comparison?

(26-12-2016 03:49 PM)Whoopsie Daisy Wrote:  Also, Germany was decimated by communist ideologues prior to Hitler taking office. National socialism was a come back campaign that worked to empower the people's idea that they could all work together for self and country.

Communist ideologies had nothing to do with Germany's "decimated" state. The rising sympathy for communism among the German people was a product of that state, not its cause.

National Socialism was fascism, a populist-speaking movement that pretends to be for the "working people" but is in fact supportive of the major industrialists of that nation, and gained its base of support by demagoguery-- blaming minority groups and opposition members for the problems and hardships faced by the common volk. It is a right-wing populist movement, through and through, and the use of "Socialist" in their title should be shockingly obvious to anyone paying attention, since they attacked actual leftists (especially communists) with as much vehemence as they did the scapegoated minority groups who weren't "real Americans Germans".

Sound familiar?

(26-12-2016 03:49 PM)Whoopsie Daisy Wrote:  Socialist programs have existed in America for decades. So the , "he's a socialist" , scare that was started but has always been underlying politics here, and that painted Bernie Sander's own campaign being he proudly admitted he was one, is a non-sequitur. Socialism exists in America already to a degree.

Congratulations, you weren't completely asleep when they taught about the New Deal in school. I wouldn't go so far as to say "socialist programs... has always been underlying politics here", though. Effectively, the New Deal was a way to keep the workers of the country from getting so frustrated that they began to agitate for actual socialist reforms. What Bernie supports is something akin to what has actually happened in most of Europe.

(26-12-2016 03:49 PM)Whoopsie Daisy Wrote:  The extermination campaign that Hitler is known for can't happen in America for a number of reasons. Being the Legislature would never permit such a thing. And also remembering that SCOTUS tells presidents what they can and cannot do. And they'd never permit such a thing to occur either.

Except where they approved internment camps for Japanese-American citizens. All of them.

And are you seriously trying to convince us that if the USA fell into the kind of economic dire straits that Germany faced-- as we might well do if the cronies Trump is placing in power get their way and manage to completely unfetter the international corporations to disembowel this country's middle class and fuck over the poor in the name of higher profits-- that this could not happen here?

(26-12-2016 03:49 PM)Whoopsie Daisy Wrote:  So the Hitler allusion is bullshit. But it works to placate the wounded left that is butt hurt because a pathological liar and un-prosecuted career criminal enemy of America didn't make history as the first woman to take highest office. So she could sell us out to the biggest payday.

Well I certainly agree with you that Hillary Clinton is one of the worst candidates the DNC could have run (I think your descriptions are a bit much, but I think she's every bit as corrupt and in the pockets of big money interests as anyone in the GOP). We have a whole thread dedicated to the laughable claim by Trump that he will "drain the swamp", when in fact he is putting in place a cabinet more corrupt than even Clinton could have managed-- and that's quite an accomplishment.

(26-12-2016 03:49 PM)Whoopsie Daisy Wrote:  And Hitler, by the way, was a national socialist, which alludes to democratic principles, not a republican. So there is always that. And of course Adolf wasn't a Presbyterian like Trump is. Rather, Hitler was Catholic.

What the fuck does the name of the party have to do with anything? This isn't a throwaway question... I'm serious. The "Republicans" of today bear little to no resemblance to the "party of Lincoln", as they like to style themselves. (And don't give me that BS about swearing making me unintelligent; it has actually been demonstrated that the opposite is the case. Caring about what sort of words your opponent uses is a sign of an intelligence deficit, not the other way around.)

Again, if you think that fascism is more closely tied to left-wing ideas than right-wing ones, you have zero, repeat zero, idea what you're talking about.

Turn off Fox News Channel. It's bad for you.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 4 users Like RocketSurgeon76's post
26-12-2016, 04:58 PM
RE: YES IT IS APT to compare Trump to WW2
(26-12-2016 04:42 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  Decimated? Communists had their little and quickly crushed revolution back in '20 and not insignificant support in '30 but that's all.

What exactly you wanted to say? I somehow doubt that communists killed every tenth German before Hitler was given power.

It's an American expression. It means "utterly devastated", rather than the literal Latin translation "1/10th dead".

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes RocketSurgeon76's post
26-12-2016, 05:03 PM (This post was last modified: 26-12-2016 05:15 PM by Szuchow.)
RE: YES IT IS APT to compare Trump to WW2
(26-12-2016 04:58 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  
(26-12-2016 04:42 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  Decimated? Communists had their little and quickly crushed revolution back in '20 and not insignificant support in '30 but that's all.

What exactly you wanted to say? I somehow doubt that communists killed every tenth German before Hitler was given power.

It's an American expression. It means "utterly devastated", rather than the literal Latin translation "1/10th dead".

It's still wrong. Communist revolution and subsequent fear of it happening again did much to undermine Weimar Republic but devastation isn't the case I feel. All fear in the world wouldn't help if not economic crisis as one can deduce from percentage of votes in particular years.


Also (in response to your other post) I would say that Nazis weren't as much pro worker (though one has to note Kraft durch Freude) as pro Volksgenosse and everyone doing their best for racial community. Edit: I wouldn't also classify them as only right wing - Nazis really did care about common, healthy and not "antisocial" German. Just look to Gotz Aly Hitler's Beneficiaries and see tax discounts. If one define socialism as no one is left behind then I would say that Nazis in their own twisted way applied.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Szuchow's post
26-12-2016, 06:16 PM
RE: YES IT IS APT to compare Trump to WW2
(26-12-2016 05:03 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  
(26-12-2016 04:58 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  It's an American expression. It means "utterly devastated", rather than the literal Latin translation "1/10th dead".

It's still wrong. Communist revolution and subsequent fear of it happening again did much to undermine Weimar Republic but devastation isn't the case I feel. All fear in the world wouldn't help if not economic crisis as one can deduce from percentage of votes in particular years.

Also (in response to your other post) I would say that Nazis weren't as much pro worker (though one has to note Kraft durch Freude) as pro Volksgenosse and everyone doing their best for racial community. Edit: I wouldn't also classify them as only right wing - Nazis really did care about common, healthy and not "antisocial" German. Just look to Gotz Aly Hitler's Beneficiaries and see tax discounts. If one define socialism as no one is left behind then I would say that Nazis in their own twisted way applied.

In the United States, at least, people on the right tend not to be so much against the idea of "no one left behind" as pretending that the people who are receiving welfare of various sorts are lazy and useless, drains on "our" economy. In nearly every way I can determine, the rhetoric of the US right-wing closely resembles that of the fascists.

They're very much in favor of protecting "us", though how they define that "us" no longer falls primarily along racial lines. It's why pointing out to them that the overwhelming majority of welfare recipients in the USA are white doesn't bother them... it's not really part of their ideology unless they're Supremacists (which is rarer than many think). Likewise, Trump has promised to uphold many of the "socialist" programs that remain popular even on the right, such as Social Security, because it protects grandma, and everyone knows it.

Today's version of fascism isn't (generally) racist, in the traditional sense. However, the legacy of racism in the USA which so heavily impacted minority communities has ensured that the effects of many of their ideologies have the same effect as racism, which is why many leftists get confused about the two perspectives.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes RocketSurgeon76's post
26-12-2016, 07:54 PM
RE: YES IT IS APT to compare Trump to WW2
At least sadly they still care deeply bout the ASP part of Wasp a great deal enough to contrast hitlers catholic legacy.

Why panic when you can panik? via da Tapatalk

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
26-12-2016, 10:05 PM
RE: YES IT IS APT to compare Trump to WW2
(26-12-2016 05:03 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  
(26-12-2016 04:58 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  It's an American expression. It means "utterly devastated", rather than the literal Latin translation "1/10th dead".

It's still wrong. Communist revolution and subsequent fear of it happening again did much to undermine Weimar Republic but devastation isn't the case I feel. All fear in the world wouldn't help if not economic crisis as one can deduce from percentage of votes in particular years.


Also (in response to your other post) I would say that Nazis weren't as much pro worker (though one has to note Kraft durch Freude) as pro Volksgenosse and everyone doing their best for racial community. Edit: I wouldn't also classify them as only right wing - Nazis really did care about common, healthy and not "antisocial" German. Just look to Gotz Aly Hitler's Beneficiaries and see tax discounts. If one define socialism as no one is left behind then I would say that Nazis in their own twisted way applied.

(26-12-2016 06:16 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  
(26-12-2016 05:03 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  It's still wrong. Communist revolution and subsequent fear of it happening again did much to undermine Weimar Republic but devastation isn't the case I feel. All fear in the world wouldn't help if not economic crisis as one can deduce from percentage of votes in particular years.

Also (in response to your other post) I would say that Nazis weren't as much pro worker (though one has to note Kraft durch Freude) as pro Volksgenosse and everyone doing their best for racial community. Edit: I wouldn't also classify them as only right wing - Nazis really did care about common, healthy and not "antisocial" German. Just look to Gotz Aly Hitler's Beneficiaries and see tax discounts. If one define socialism as no one is left behind then I would say that Nazis in their own twisted way applied.

In the United States, at least, people on the right tend not to be so much against the idea of "no one left behind" as pretending that the people who are receiving welfare of various sorts are lazy and useless, drains on "our" economy. In nearly every way I can determine, the rhetoric of the US right-wing closely resembles that of the fascists.

They're very much in favor of protecting "us", though how they define that "us" no longer falls primarily along racial lines. It's why pointing out to them that the overwhelming majority of welfare recipients in the USA are white doesn't bother them... it's not really part of their ideology unless they're Supremacists (which is rarer than many think). Likewise, Trump has promised to uphold many of the "socialist" programs that remain popular even on the right, such as Social Security, because it protects grandma, and everyone knows it.

Today's version of fascism isn't (generally) racist, in the traditional sense. However, the legacy of racism in the USA which so heavily impacted minority communities has ensured that the effects of many of their ideologies have the same effect as racism, which is why many leftists get confused about the two perspectives.

Reading the above 2 posts it seems to me both are correct. They differ only in perspective. S understands what it is to live in a formerly communist state, and R knows what it's like to live in America.

Is either correct?

Historians will debate this for centuries.

As far as I can tell, America is no different to any other empire building nation, trumpeting freedom they have spent many years installing fascist regimes in foreign countries. All this under the umbrella of "protecting freedom". Freedom for whom?

The waffen SS thought they were protecting western civilisation and culture.

And so it goes, now in America it would appear fascism has come full circle and returned home.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 4 users Like Banjo's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: