YES IT IS APT to compare Trump to WW2
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27-12-2016, 12:56 AM
RE: YES IT IS APT to compare Trump to WW2
(26-12-2016 04:46 PM)Banjo Wrote:  
(26-12-2016 03:49 PM)Whoopsie Daisy Wrote:  Well also, Hitler wasn't elected to power.

Neither was Trump.

Oh and by the way, America is not immune to the ravages of history.

[Image: mccarthy-army-hearings.jpeg]

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27-12-2016, 02:04 AM
RE: YES IT IS APT to compare Trump to WW2
(26-12-2016 06:16 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  In the United States, at least, people on the right tend not to be so much against the idea of "no one left behind" as pretending that the people who are receiving welfare of various sorts are lazy and useless, drains on "our" economy. In nearly every way I can determine, the rhetoric of the US right-wing closely resembles that of the fascists.

Here one can see something similar as people think that poverty is caused by one being lazy or some such which is just victim blaming, especially in country with issues like Poland [Modern Polish Society, p. 614]. I would say that people aren't really against social services and welfare though, or rather majority isn't, as even most dumb remember how too much of free market (Balcerowicz solution after transformation) fucked up the country.

Quote:They're very much in favor of protecting "us", though how they define that "us" no longer falls primarily along racial lines. It's why pointing out to them that the overwhelming majority of welfare recipients in the USA are white doesn't bother them... it's not really part of their ideology unless they're Supremacists (which is rarer than many think). Likewise, Trump has promised to uphold many of the "socialist" programs that remain popular even on the right, such as Social Security, because it protects grandma, and everyone knows it.

Here right wing Law&Justice won on populist promises of giving more money for children. Fact that budget can't really afford such measures does not seem to matter, just like the fact that problem (or "problem") is far deeper and it won't be solved without serious legislative work.

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27-12-2016, 04:13 AM
RE: YES IT IS APT to compare Trump to WW2
(27-12-2016 12:56 AM)Deesse23 Wrote:  
(26-12-2016 04:46 PM)Banjo Wrote:  Neither was Trump.

Oh and by the way, America is not immune to the ravages of history.

[Image: mccarthy-army-hearings.jpeg]

"Tail-gunner Joe" McCarthy, for those of you who don't recognize the Witch-hunter-in-chief from the 1950s.
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27-12-2016, 03:33 PM
RE: YES IT IS APT to compare Trump to WW2
(27-12-2016 04:13 AM)Gawdzilla Wrote:  
(27-12-2016 12:56 AM)Deesse23 Wrote:  [Image: mccarthy-army-hearings.jpeg]

"Tail-gunner Joe" McCarthy, for those of you who don't recognize the Witch-hunter-in-chief from the 1950s.

I certainly did.

Sadly, part of our problem is that too few Americans know about the Red Scare and how it changed our country for the worse.

But it also gave us the line that may (eventually... too late?) be the final sentence at the undoing of Trump-and-friends:

"You've done enough. Have you no sense of decency, sir, at long last? Have you left no sense of decency?"

- U.S. Army Chief Counsel Joseph N. Welch

http://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches...arthy.html

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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27-12-2016, 05:42 PM
RE: YES IT IS APT to compare Trump to WW2
(27-12-2016 03:33 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  
(27-12-2016 04:13 AM)Gawdzilla Wrote:  "Tail-gunner Joe" McCarthy, for those of you who don't recognize the Witch-hunter-in-chief from the 1950s.

I certainly did.

Sadly, part of our problem is that too few Americans know about the Red Scare and how it changed our country for the worse.

But it also gave us the line that may (eventually... too late?) be the final sentence at the undoing of Trump-and-friends:

"You've done enough. Have you no sense of decency, sir, at long last? Have you left no sense of decency?"

- U.S. Army Chief Counsel Joseph N. Welch

http://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches...arthy.html

That line is imho one of the strongest ones i have ever seen. I have utter respect for this man.

While McCarthy was a horrible individual (and most probably haunted by very personal demons, otherwise he wouldnt have succumbed to alcoholism), his assistant Roy Cohn was probably worse, in part because his career was so long.
I can hardly imagine something worse than a closeted homosexual huntig down people who had (or not) relations to communist organisations. That is the very epitome of bigotry. He kept it that way until he ultimately died of AIDS, which he didnt want to be made public as well and requested his cause of death being liver cancer.
If you look at his list of clients, it ranges from the who-is-who of mafia bosses (Gotti, Galante) up to .....yes, the next POTUS, which, again, lets this thread come to a full circle.

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01-01-2017, 06:28 PM
RE: YES IT IS APT to compare Trump to WW2
(26-12-2016 04:55 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  National Socialism was fascism, a populist-speaking movement that pretends to be for the "working people" but is in fact supportive of the major industrialists of that nation, and gained its base of support by demagoguery-- blaming minority groups and opposition members for the problems and hardships faced by the common volk. It is a right-wing populist movement, through and through, and the use of "Socialist" in their title should be shockingly obvious to anyone paying attention, since they attacked actual leftists (especially communists) with as much vehemence as they did the scapegoated minority groups who weren't "real Americans Germans".

Sound familiar?

And are you seriously trying to convince us that if the USA fell into the kind of economic dire straits that Germany faced-- as we might well do if the cronies Trump is placing in power get their way and manage to completely unfetter the international corporations to disembowel this country's middle class and fuck over the poor in the name of higher profits-- that this could not happen here?

Sounds way too familiar.

It could happen here if things got bad enough, especially if there was worse 9/11 combined with a Great Depression.
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02-01-2017, 01:46 AM
RE: YES IT IS APT to compare Trump to WW2
(01-01-2017 06:28 PM)SkeptiCal Wrote:  
(26-12-2016 04:55 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  National Socialism was fascism, a populist-speaking movement that pretends to be for the "working people" but is in fact supportive of the major industrialists of that nation, and gained its base of support by demagoguery-- blaming minority groups and opposition members for the problems and hardships faced by the common volk. It is a right-wing populist movement, through and through, and the use of "Socialist" in their title should be shockingly obvious to anyone paying attention, since they attacked actual leftists (especially communists) with as much vehemence as they did the scapegoated minority groups who weren't "real Americans Germans".

Sound familiar?

And are you seriously trying to convince us that if the USA fell into the kind of economic dire straits that Germany faced-- as we might well do if the cronies Trump is placing in power get their way and manage to completely unfetter the international corporations to disembowel this country's middle class and fuck over the poor in the name of higher profits-- that this could not happen here?

Sounds way too familiar.

It could happen here if things got bad enough, especially if there was worse 9/11 combined with a Great Depression.

It could happen anywhere, it is probability of such thing happening that is in question.

But I think that similarities would be superficial at best as Nazis had some specific set of beliefs. Just look at the Soviet Union and III Reich - at the surface they were similar in their totalitarian ways but when one looks deeper differences also were manifold. Check the Michael Geyer Beyond Totalitarianism: Stalinism and Nazism Compared.

So while dictatorship is possible but not likely in USA I don't see it being similar to Nazi one, nor Trump remind me of Hitler. Trump from what little I know about him is no ideologue. Better comparison would be Mussolini - power hungry clown treating ideologies as tools to achieve intended goal, but in that he is no different that many politicians I would say.

All in all to denounce Trump one don't need to bring historical analogies. His words and action are enough (or not, depend on how one see him I guess) without conjuring specters of the past.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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02-01-2017, 02:07 AM
RE: YES IT IS APT to compare Trump to WW2
If something can happen, it usually does.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
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02-01-2017, 02:13 AM
RE: YES IT IS APT to compare Trump to WW2
(02-01-2017 02:07 AM)Banjo Wrote:  If something can happen, it usually does.

Life is more complicated than Murphy Laws or some mutation of them.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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02-01-2017, 02:54 AM
RE: YES IT IS APT to compare Trump to WW2
(02-01-2017 02:13 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  Life is more complicated than Murphy Laws or some mutation of them.

Tell that to Maxentius. Big Grin

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
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