YES! They actually did it!
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18-03-2011, 12:59 PM
YES! They actually did it!
It is amazing to look at. Today the UN security council did perhaps the most decent thing they haw done since my stones dropped. They have voted on a resolution which makes a no-fly zone over Libya a reality.
This is the leaders of the world actively choosing human rights over oil! It makes my tummy tingle. Big Grin

I want to rip off your superstitions and make passionate sense to you
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18-03-2011, 02:25 PM
 
RE: YES! They actually did it!
I don't see Human Rights as what will be ensured by this Resolution. Undecided
(USN Article: Could Libya Be the Next Iraq for the United States?
Some fear the no-fly zone in Libya could mean another war in the Middle East)


(Excerpt)

JUST IN CNN:What a no-fly zone, other Libya measures would mean
No-fly zone

The authorization establishes a ban on all flights in Libyan airspace to help protect civilians. The exceptions are:

– Flights by U.N. member states for the purpose of enforcing the flight ban

– Humanitarian flights (such as those delivering medical supplies, food and humanitarian workers)

– Any flights “which are deemed necessary” by nations enforcing the no-fly zone.

U.S. military officials have said that a no-fly zone would typically be enforced by fighter jets.

A no-fly zone could cost up to $300 million a week, according to data obtained by CNN’s Barbara Starr.
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18-03-2011, 02:54 PM
RE: YES! They actually did it!
(18-03-2011 02:25 PM)GassyKitten Wrote:  I don't see Human Rights as what will be ensured by this Resolution. Undecided
(USN Article: Could Libya Be the Next Iraq for the United States?
Some fear the no-fly zone in Libya could mean another war in the Middle East)

It is clear that Muammar Gaddafi is violating the human rights of the citizens of Libya. At least as the UN defines them.
From the Universal Declaration if Human Rights:

Article 3
Everyone has the right to life, liberty, and security of person.

Article 13
Everyone has the right to freedom of movement and residence within the borders of each state.
Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country.

Article 19
Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers.

Article 20
Everyone has the right to freedom of peaceful assembly and association.
No one may be compelled to belong to an association.

Article 21
Everyone has the right to take part in the government of his country, directly or through freely chosen representatives.
Everyone has the right of equal access to public service in his country.
The will of the people shall be the basis of the authority of government; this will shall be expressed in periodic and genuine elections which shall be by universal and equal suffrage and shall be held by secret vote or by equivalent free voting procedures.

He has been violating Article 21 for 40 years now. I believe time is due for some drastic change. Even without the human rights declaration, the guy is bombing his own people! I mean, come on!

I think you should go on youtube and watch the speech president Obama's held today. This is a coalition intervention by the U.S. the EU and the Arabic League. The U.S. will not bear this responsibility alone, nor the cost. Also, since the resolution does not include a ground intervention, I have a problem seeing how this could possibly turn out to be another Iraq.

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18-03-2011, 02:59 PM
RE: YES! They actually did it!
About FUCKING TIME!

Where was the EU when a decision needed to be made weeks ago?
Swimming in the oil they bought from those middle-eastern thieves and crooks they are going to try and shoot out of the air now? Angry

I despise the inactive babbling cowards leading this union!

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18-03-2011, 03:17 PM
RE: YES! They actually did it!
(18-03-2011 02:59 PM)The_observer Wrote:  About FUCKING TIME!

Where was the EU when a decision needed to be made weeks ago?
Swimming in the oil they bought from those middle-eastern thieves and crooks they are going to try and shoot out of the air now? Angry

I despise the inactive babbling cowards leading this union!

Actually, the EU (excluding Germany) has been very clear on what needs to be done. It is Russia and China who have been holding this back. They are fervently opposed to engaging in anything that can be even remotely seen as interfering with the inner workings of a sovereign nation. The fact that they have chosen not to veto this resolution speaks volumes about the atrocities Gaddafi has committed.

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18-03-2011, 03:41 PM (This post was last modified: 18-03-2011 03:47 PM by Observer.)
RE: YES! They actually did it!
OK
the rage in me has settled. Sleepy

What bothers me, ThinkingNoresman, is that the EU, when it comes to though decisions, always waits on other country’s to join in before a decision is made. This resolution could be voted 14 days earlier. But no... Let's wait some more.

I don't quite get why we need a permanent person responsible for foreign affairs and a permanent chairman when all they do is waiting on other country’s and then agreeing on what they decide.

The EU is NOT the powerful machine they sold to us. It’s a babble-shack of cowardly over-payed diplomats protecting their posts! No wonder important countries like Germany and England are EU-sceptical. Add some Greece dept and the only thing they can do is dance to save their own skin. Angry


oops...
there I go again Blush

(18-03-2011 03:17 PM)ThinkingNorseman Wrote:  The fact that they have chosen not to veto this resolution speaks volumes about the atrocities Gaddafi has committed.
I am going to have to be happy that they not voted against the resolution. They could have done more. I am disappointed in the EU. But i think my previous posts speak that out well.
To stay on topic...

Yes... It is good that the resolution passed. I wonder what will happen next. Those tanks must not reach Bengahzi or we will get a bloodbath. I hope something can be done in time...

Observer

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18-03-2011, 04:42 PM
RE: YES! They actually did it!
The UN is sadly a prime example of impotence.
They failed to stop Saddam from using chemical weapons back in the day.
They failed to stop the US invasion of Iraq.
Now finally they pull their thumbs out of their asses ... wow , historic moment.

The EU still needs some time to react. We're not as homogeneous as presented - a lot of countries with different opinions and a beauracracy to make a lawyer cry - no offense BnW.
I'm not a EU skeptic , I'm just a politician skeptic , regardless what institution they represent - come on europeans , let's do something.

Atheism is a religion like OFF is a TV channel !!!

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18-03-2011, 04:48 PM
 
RE: YES! They actually did it!
(18-03-2011 02:54 PM)ThinkingNorseman Wrote:  
(18-03-2011 02:25 PM)GassyKitten Wrote:  I don't see Human Rights as what will be ensured by this Resolution. Undecided
(USN Article: Could Libya Be the Next Iraq for the United States?
Some fear the no-fly zone in Libya could mean another war in the Middle East)

It is clear that Muammar Gaddafi is violating the human rights of the citizens of Libya...
I in no way implied or said outright that Gaddafi was not violating human rights. In fact, his violation isn't just recently occurring. He's always been a bastard in Libya to his own people.
What I was saying, per the articles linked in my original reply, is I don't think this resolution guarantee's human rights. It certainly isn't going to stop Gaddafi from carrying out his violent insanity. And in fact, the remedies afforded in the Resolution's language, so that his insanity can at least be addressed and defended on behalf of the people he targets in Libya, can stand to bring more harm to the people in the care of the potential for war not only in Libya, but what could be used as a launching point for his allies to rally, as well. Which would endanger the people of Libya and others as well.

Sanctions don't work on the dictators of the country they're applied to. As we learned when the sanctions against Iraq, long before the invasion under Bush43. The one's impacted by the sanctions were the people of Iraq. As the number of AIDS/HIV babies in hospitals there indicated, due to reuse of needles, because fresh medical supplies were one of the materials that the sanctions effected.
While, when the U.S. did invade Iraq, Hussein was found to be in the midst of building his 7th palace!

Resolutions aren't any more of a guarantee to protect the people of the country those measures apply to. It's just a first strike method to launch conflict onto another level of playing field. Where a leader like MG is targeted, it simply sets the stage for an escalation. He didn't give a care about his people before all this uprising, that's why the uprising ensued. Now that the UN thinks to step in with it's member nations and wag it's finger officially and point by point and say, we the people of the world say you can't do that anymore and this is why and this is what we'll do if you continue, is simply following the formula for conflict to escalate on a march larger scale with more players, and perhaps on into war. Which is nothing the U.S. needs in the ME, but given we're the foremost member nation of the UN, bodes ill for that potential to come to pass.

It's politics! If the U.S. itself, not to mention other powers, wanted MG out of office, he'd be a cold flesh memory. We see the price of gasoline now, as the Egypt conflict ensued and started the rise weeks ago. Not because of the people of Egypt having just cause to rally and want their long serving corrupt President out of office. But because Egypt controlled the Suez. Now we hear about conflict in Libya, and the gas prices are rising again.

If there was no oil in Libya, there would be no UN Resolution forthcoming under the excuse of human rights preservation and protection. If it was about that, the UN would have scolded MG long ago. It's about the oil, Opec and the bottom line in that region.

Mark my words, this conflict in Libya and that region of the world, isn't going to be curtailed by a UN Resolution. That UNR was simply the first shot over Gaddafi's bow, letting him know there are a whole lot more ships now circling his waters and they're all ready to party for the sake of what is crudely top of the list, moving Libyan human citizens rights wayyy down the paper.
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18-03-2011, 04:57 PM (This post was last modified: 18-03-2011 05:09 PM by Observer.)
RE: YES! They actually did it!
(18-03-2011 04:42 PM)gaglamesh731 Wrote:  I'm not a EU skeptic
Me neither. I am an EU dissapoint... thingy
... Disappointical? Huh

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18-03-2011, 07:02 PM
 
RE: YES! They actually did it!
(18-03-2011 04:57 PM)The_observer Wrote:  
(18-03-2011 04:42 PM)gaglamesh731 Wrote:  I'm not a EU skeptic
Me neither. I am an EU dissapoint... thingy
... Disappointical? Huh
Don't worry, it's a word nowww! Tongue
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