YOU were NEVER saved in the first place!!
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08-02-2012, 09:45 AM
 
YOU were NEVER saved in the first place!!
“You were never saved in the first place”

How many of us Recovering Christians have heard this?

Dan Barker addresses this in his books and in debates. He’ll stated “If I was not saved, then no one can be saved” and then gives his verbal resume of his life (if he were saved still, that resume would end in applause at a Christian function).

I actually have a dear dear friend that recently told me I was never saved.

What do you guys normally say to such a claim?

At the core, I tend to get offended at such a statement. My ‘knee jerk’ is to want to say “Who the fuck are you to know what I was at the time, at the time I believed as you did”.

Do they think we were simply lying to ourselves all along?

If so, then what about that same principle applied in reverse? How do YOU know YOU are not lying to yourself now?

On THIS forum, I see many ex ministers. Seth was an EX Christian broadcaster. Barker, an ex minister. Bart Eherman is an ex fundie. Dr Robert Price, an ex southern Baptist preacher….and the list goes on and on. Many are STILL considered to be TOP experts in the field of Theology.

What do the saved really think about these ex Christians?
Were all these people fooled all along or are simply ‘back-slidden’?

BOTH of those answers make the 'saved' feel better (I used them) but really don’t MAN up to the fact that Honest and Exhaustive research and self reflection went into walking away from the fairy tale.

Am I rambling, ranting or asking?….I don’t know. I just wonder what the rest of you think about this.

D
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08-02-2012, 09:54 AM
RE: YOU were NEVER saved in the first place!!
I wasn't indoctrinated, I volunteered, but was also long gone before anyone had invested any adult time into me. Still, I know I'd be annoyed at having been told such a thing. Not because I felt that I had been saved. Because i think that's nonsense. But because it's just an idiotic statement.

I would imagine they use it to deflect any doubt from their minds. So they can say, "it's ok, he wasn't saved like I am, that's why he doesn't believe" a way of making them feel special. I personally think the ones who say things like this are actually afraid that they might lose faith.

"I think of myself as an intelligent, sensitive human being with the soul of a clown which always forces me to blow it at the most important moments." -Jim Morrison
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08-02-2012, 10:01 AM
RE: YOU were NEVER saved in the first place!!
(08-02-2012 09:45 AM)Denicio Wrote:  “You were never saved in the first place”

How many of us Recovering Christians have heard this?

Dan Barker addresses this in his books and in debates. He’ll stated “If I was not saved, then no one can be saved” and then gives his verbal resume of his life (if he were saved still, that resume would end in applause at a Christian function).

I actually have a dear dear friend that recently told me I was never saved.

What do you guys normally say to such a claim?

At the core, I tend to get offended at such a statement. My ‘knee jerk’ is to want to say “Who the fuck are you to know what I was at the time, at the time I believed as you did”.

Do they think we were simply lying to ourselves all along?

If so, then what about that same principle applied in reverse? How do YOU know YOU are not lying to yourself now?

On THIS forum, I see many ex ministers. Seth was an EX Christian broadcaster. Barker, an ex minister. Bart Eherman is an ex fundie. Dr Robert Price, an ex southern Baptist preacher….and the list goes on and on. Many are STILL considered to be TOP experts in the field of Theology.

What do the saved really think about these ex Christians?
Were all these people fooled all along or are simply ‘back-slidden’?

BOTH of those answers make the 'saved' feel better (I used them) but really don’t MAN up to the fact that Honest and Exhaustive research and self reflection went into walking away from the fairy tale.

Am I rambling, ranting or asking?….I don’t know. I just wonder what the rest of you think about this.

D

Well, you weren't. No one was or is. What's the problem? Why do you care?

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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08-02-2012, 11:12 AM
RE: YOU were NEVER saved in the first place!!
Well we can always ask our Kingschosen with the never saved in the first place stuff.. I mean he's the one that was born with a golden horseshoe up his arse! Tongue God apparently picked him in advance so he's saved automatically.

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. -- Voltaire
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08-02-2012, 11:16 AM
RE: YOU were NEVER saved in the first place!!
I'm told that I was either never a "true believer" or "there's still hope that I could find jesus".

These two statements are very frustrating, and it's nearly impossible to argue with someone who presents them. I usually just try to plant the seeds of doubt by asking questions regarding conflicting passages and the immoral and absurd behavior by god in the bible (the passages on slavery are usually my main argument), and to promote critical thinking. No one is going to change their mind in one conversation, but if I can at least get them thinking differently about a certain issue, they just might wonder... or not, but that's my approach.

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08-02-2012, 11:28 AM
RE: YOU were NEVER saved in the first place!!
I don't take any offense to the literal words- sure none of us were actually "saved". But there is more to the statement than the literal, and that's what I take offense to. The problem is that it's entirely dismissive. And I think like Lucradis said, it's a way to attempt to shore up their own faith and convince themselves that they aren't susceptible like you were.

But the reason I would take offense is that they are suggesting that you are a dishonest person or an un-trusting person, either of which make you untrustworthy. Either you never meant any of it and you were lying to yourself and everyone else, or you were too much of a "doubting Thomas" to trust in God for your salvation. So you were never "saved".

I haven't heard anyone say this to me, but the only Christian I've told about my atheism is my father. He knows where I was, and he'd never say that. Instead he thinks of me more like the lost (prodigal) son (link for anyone not familiar with the parable).
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08-02-2012, 11:35 AM
RE: YOU were NEVER saved in the first place!!
(08-02-2012 09:54 AM)lucradis Wrote:  I would imagine they use it to deflect any doubt from their minds. So they can say, "it's ok, he wasn't saved like I am, that's why he doesn't believe" a way of making them feel special. I personally think the ones who say things like this are actually afraid that they might lose faith.

THIS ^^^^^^^^^^^^ Smile

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08-02-2012, 11:35 AM
RE: YOU were NEVER saved in the first place!!
(08-02-2012 11:12 AM)ddrew Wrote:  Well we can always ask our Kingschosen with the never saved in the first place stuff.. I mean he's the one that was born with a golden horseshoe up his arse! Tongue God apparently picked him in advance so he's saved automatically.

This only took 4 posts.

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08-02-2012, 11:49 AM
RE: YOU were NEVER saved in the first place!!
(08-02-2012 11:35 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(08-02-2012 11:12 AM)ddrew Wrote:  Well we can always ask our Kingschosen with the never saved in the first place stuff.. I mean he's the one that was born with a golden horseshoe up his arse! Tongue God apparently picked him in advance so he's saved automatically.

This only took 4 posts.

Smile

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08-02-2012, 12:24 PM
RE: YOU were NEVER saved in the first place!!
Drunk Drew, where ya been man? I've missed you!

I was emotionally offended the first time Kingschosen told me I was never elect in spite of my 40 years of faithful service. My first response was one of anger..."How dare you say I wasn't saved?" Followed quickly by..."Y'ou're right...I'm not saved because NO ONE is nor is there ANY reason to be saved."

I think the emotion comes from the fact I didn't like being told I had wasted 4 decades being a Christian. But the fact is...I DID waste 40+ years being a Christian. No wonder I feel sick to my stomach. Dodgy

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