Yahweh: A Volcano Mountain GOD of Fire and War
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12-12-2012, 02:03 PM (This post was last modified: 12-12-2012 02:14 PM by TheJackal.)
Yahweh: A Volcano Mountain GOD of Fire and War
[Image: 5143568_f520.jpg]

Over the last year and a half I had heard about the supposed argument about Yahweh possibly being a volcano deity by various people on the internet quoting Exodus and few other various scattered verses from the bible with no in depth direction or evaluation of those verses. Now I had my suspicion of this after having become an Atheist myself, but I never really looked into it until recently as it never really struck my interest giving most of the arguments were pretty lacking in detail or usually cited Sigmund Freud to whom really didn't go into detail on the subject either. Thus I pretty much dismissed it entirely until I saw Thunderfoot's video: Was GOD a Volcano?, a video to which for some reason really sort of tipped my curiosity far enough to go and do some research on the argument, question, or suggestion in which I didn't expect to find much of anything on. I actually expected it to be just isolated to Exodus as reference to a specific single event than specifically to Yahweh as a volcano god. I figured I would get maybe 1 small short article and conclude it with dismissal of the argument. However, I had no idea how deep this rabbit hole actually went, and I had no idea how well supported the argument of Yahweh being a volcano mountain GOD would be, and even the articles I found myself writing required extensive exclusion of what I could include to where I battled with deciding on what to and what not to include and discuss. Thus even the following articles barely touch on the subject, and I haven't even included a ton of information regarding the Qu'ran and Islam that goes into how their mountain loves them, or how mountains were seen to have spirits and feelings ect. Yes it goes far deeper than most realize, and so I thought I would share these articles I wrote for those of you who might be curious as to how in depth this argument actually is. So here are the links with quick abstracts:

Article 1:
Yahweh: The worshiping of a Volcano / fire GOD of War
Quote:I have given much thought about posting this Satanical and blasphemous article on Newsvine, and it has been a while since I have posted such an article of evil. One may believe I have been tempered in the light, but yet I have a scorching urge to post such darkness of the flaming tongue. This to which I can not ignore or resist as it burns to erupt from within. And thus I have felt in the end that this volcanic subject deserved a bit of attention for a bit of candle lit enlightenment, flickering out from the ash shadows of darkness from which this volcanic beast hides.

Article 2:
Mountain GOD Worship: Yahweh, God of the Mountains
Quote:I remember as a child playing "King of the hill", and how when I ever laid a successful sack of the mighty mountain that I would be King of all the realms before me. Truly the most high is crowned the overlord of the kingdoms, and I would seek my wrath should my position ever had been challenged. It's a game I am sure many of us remember, but I wonder how many actually understand how true this game is to the history religion in ancient Mesopotamia. And how true it is to the wars where
territories were associated with particular Mountain GOD's, all fighting to be King of the hill.
-

So have fun reading them, and I hope you enjoy them even if to entertain one's amusement. I also will likely be writing an article regarding the Qur'an, but I need to finish reading the Qu'ran and finish doing some research on Islam and their history, rituals, beliefs, oral traditions ect.

Cheers!
TheJackel
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12-12-2012, 02:52 PM
RE: Yahweh: A Volcano Mountain GOD of Fire and War
A pretty fascinating video from thunderfoot.
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12-12-2012, 03:33 PM (This post was last modified: 12-12-2012 03:37 PM by TheJackal.)
RE: Yahweh: A Volcano Mountain GOD of Fire and War
(12-12-2012 02:52 PM)DeavonReye Wrote:  A pretty fascinating video from thunderfoot.
That is very true since his explanation of what Exodus stated gave it enough legs for me to actually bother to take a closer look at the subject, and get into discussions about it on Newsvine.. Makes for interesting case of anthropomorphism. This to which most religions are basically based on. But you won't ever get very many Christians or religious people admit that.. Tongue
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12-12-2012, 03:53 PM
RE: Yahweh: A Volcano Mountain GOD of Fire and War
But how would a volcano god drown all humanity, flora and fauna in a cataclysmic water flood?
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12-12-2012, 03:54 PM
RE: Yahweh: A Volcano Mountain GOD of Fire and War
No way? YAWEH!
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12-12-2012, 04:12 PM (This post was last modified: 13-12-2012 12:17 AM by TheJackal.)
RE: Yahweh: A Volcano Mountain GOD of Fire and War
(12-12-2012 03:53 PM)Janus Wrote:  But how would a volcano god drown all humanity, flora and fauna in a cataclysmic water flood?
Thanks for the question Janus ,

Firstly, mainstream archeology considers Exodus and Genesis as mythical, and the flood myth is obviously based on the fact floods can often be cataclysmic events (Just look at New Jersey).. Also the Eruption of Thera would definitely have caused Tsunamis and your talking about a region of the world that is very geologically active.. Now if you read the article, I pointed to the fact that Egyptians cities have been buried in Volcanic ash and rock to which has been linked to the Thera eruption to which was a super volcanic event. The other thing you must consider is that it's a common thing to write mythology based on real events such as a super volcanic eruption. We humans have been doing so since we could write and speak. Even the story of atlantis, written in 360 bc (I think), is suspected to be about the Thera eruption. But it doesn't mean we magically consider them any less than mythical even if based on a real event.. There is a lot wrong with the Exodus to which includes chronological problems that show it to have had sections written in different time periods. However the Exodus's first written evidence seems to date back to about 1,523 BC...Not longer than a maximum of 100 years after the Thera Eruption.. But to answer your question, no such event ever happened in that context of all humanity ect being wiped out, and is likely an embellishment of a Tsunami, or possibly in regards to a flooding event not uncommon in that region. Flood myths are not unique to Christianity either, and they date back even further. So I wouldn't really be to concerned about the argument regarding a Volcano god as devastating floods can happen:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...eland.html
http://english.donga.com/srv/service.php...0092754168

Also, if you read the bible, names such as EL was not actually a generic name for GOD in that time period. El, El Elyon, and El Shaddai are specifically Canaanite and Amorite deities. So I would expect that the entire bible may not always be consistent with other parts of the bible. So the only reason you see it in that context is because the Yahwist cult was usurping the Canaanite and Amorite deities into the persona of Yahweh, and that Genesis is really just a mixed mutt of preexisting pagan oral traditions, myths, beliefs, rituals, and cultures. El ELyon for example was only ever attested to El and his son Ba'al... Yahweh wasn't associated to these names until he was equated with EL in the attempt to usurp EL.. This to which was common practice when one cult sought to take over another as we can see discussed in my second article. So Genesis really had nothing to do with "Yahweh".. Yahweh doesn't exist in the bible until Exodus.. So if you understand the Cannaanite and Amorite origins of EL, EL ELyon, and El Shaddai, as well as the process of usurping, you will understand how yahwists edited the bible and placed this verse in it to try and equate Yahweh with those deities in apologetic format:

Quote:Exodus 6:2

2 God also said to Moses, “I am the LORD.

Exodus 6:3

3 I appeared to Abraham, to Isaac and to Jacob as God Almighty,[a] but by my name the LORD I did not make myself fully known to them.

And you then realize why Yahweh is found in association with EL's wife Asherah as his consort to which is typical of what happened when one takes over another, or in war when you conquer another mans household to take his wife for your own.. This to which you also see in the bible where Moses commands or allows this very act.. And speaking of usurping, now you have Christianity trying to usurp Yahweh into the personal of Christ to equate those two.. And lets face it, they need their solar deity when worshiping a volcano is just silly these days. And never mind that Christianity itself is heavily rooted in Egyptian mythology to which includes the parting of the read sea concept taken from the Golden Lotus. But that is entirely another discussion all together Smile
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12-12-2012, 05:27 PM
RE: Yahweh: A Volcano Mountain GOD of Fire and War
(12-12-2012 04:12 PM)TheJackal Wrote:  [...] the Exodus's first written evidence seems to date back to about 1,523 BC...


Really? Afaic there are no known Jewish religious texts older than about 400 BC. After the return from – and heavy influencing in – exile in Babylon. Anything older are just pottery shards.
So I'd be interested to know what 1523 BC Jewish religious document you're referring to.
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12-12-2012, 05:48 PM (This post was last modified: 12-12-2012 06:39 PM by TheJackal.)
RE: Yahweh: A Volcano Mountain GOD of Fire and War
(12-12-2012 05:27 PM)Janus Wrote:  
(12-12-2012 04:12 PM)TheJackal Wrote:  [...] the Exodus's first written evidence seems to date back to about 1,523 BC...


Really? Afaic there are no known Jewish religious texts older than about 400 BC. After the return from – and heavy influencing in – exile in Babylon. Anything older are just pottery shards.
So I'd be interested to know what 1523 BC Jewish religious document you're referring to.

Sorry, bad choice of words on my part as I should have phrased that more accurately to say that the 1,523 date of Exodus is derived from this source to where I thought it's estimate was 1523 - 1570:
Biblical Archaeology: The Date of the Exodus According to Ancient Writers.

Though I might have gotten the 1523 number from another source as a quick scan I can not find it above.. However, this is stated:
Quote: A look at all the archaeological evidence shows that the best fit of the data is to identify the Exodus with the expulsion of the Hyksos from Egypt around 1570-50 BC The most important discovery is the Merneptah stele that mentions Israel which forced the revision of a number of liberal theories. Before the discovery of this stele scholars placed the date of the exodus and entry into Canaan much later.

Edit, I found where I got that from in that source:

Quote:Theophilus disagrees with Manetho who said the Jews were banish from Egypt because of leprosy, and the king of the exodus lived for another 25 years. He dates the building of Solomon's Temple as 566 years after the exodus. The Temple is also said to exist 143 years 8 months before the founding of Carthage in about 814 BC This would place the exodus at about 1523 BC (Ibid).

And I think the latest time frame that can be argued by anyone is 1,210 BC, but I think I agree that it's more likely based some where near 1500-1570 BC giving the description of exodus and the archeological evidence to which includes the buried cities in Egypt from volcanic ash ect. This to which is current evidence not presented in the article, but gives more support to dealing with the plagues ect that are commonly found in regards to volcanic events of this scale and why my first article went over the plagues in regards to volcanic activity. Oh , and that source also mentions this source to which I haven't investigated yet as I haven't watched it.. But I would agree that is what those stories are based on:

Quote:Biblical plagues and parting of Red Sea 'caused by volcano' So says new BBC documentary (The Daily Telegraph, London). Moses, which will be broadcast on BBC1 on Dec 1, 2002 will suggest that much of the Bible story can be explained by a single natural disaster, a huge volcanic eruption on the Greek island of Santorini in the 16th century BC.
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12-12-2012, 08:02 PM (This post was last modified: 12-12-2012 08:19 PM by Janus.)
RE: Yahweh: A Volcano Mountain GOD of Fire and War
Yeah that's what I thought. That 16th century BC date is a hypothesis based on conjecture and projection. Not much more than an educated guess, really. Some would say wishful thinking. No documental evidence to back it up, see. Yet.

Although I grant you that Thera's eruption – which most likely happened before 1600 BC! – must have been a watershed event for all humanity as it probably caused crops to fail just about everywhere on earth. Probably for a few years running. Undoubtedly resulting in crushing starvation and death on an obscene scale.
Events like that tend to shape history.
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12-12-2012, 09:20 PM (This post was last modified: 13-12-2012 12:10 AM by TheJackal.)
RE: Yahweh: A Volcano Mountain GOD of Fire and War
Quote:Yeah that's what I thought. That 16th century BC date is a hypothesis based on conjecture and projection. Not much more than an educated guess, really. Some would say wishful thinking. No documental evidence to back it up, see. Yet.

It's not entirely based on conjecture and projection, but I would agree it's a hypothesis. So despite that, most of the sources agree on the time period, and it's really the only one that makes any coherent sense as there isn't any other hypothesis that makes any sense at all. And you should consider the archeological evidence provided.. After all, it sure beats magic pure assumption.. But I must stress as I stressed before, it doesn't actually matter when the exodus was written or the time period suggested to which it's referring to according to consensus of the hypothesis as most mainstream Egyptology and archeology ect consider it a myth, as in there is no evidence of it happening as it's told regardless if based on a real event in which we are pretty sure it is based on. And you have to consider the context of Exodus regarding volcanic activity, and how such activity left its mark in ancient cultures, religions, and civilizations in that part of the world. And we have plenty of documented evidence for that in itself.. However this isn't about the documented evidence for Exodus happening as it's written, but rather what it was likely based on. And an educated guess, a rational one at that, is far better than seeking a magical and completely mythical one. The cultures grew around a very geologically active region that stretches up and down the Nile, in Egypt, and around the Mediterranean and Red Seas respectively and appears embedded in the cultures the developed in such regions.. We even see this sort of thing show up in Native American cultures as well. So I wouldn't be to concerned about the hypothesized dates to what is likely a mythical story vs the dates of real cataclysmic events that they were likely based on..

Quote:Although I grant you that Thera's eruption – which most likely happened before 1600 BC! – must have been a watershed event for all humanity as it probably caused crops to fail just about everywhere on earth. Probably for a few years running. Undoubtedly resulting in crushing starvation and death on an obscene scale.
Events like that tend to shape history.

Actually the evidence in Egypt is showing that it likely happened in the mid or late 1500's BC even though other evidence suggests the 1600's BC time period..This either suggests more than one eruption event, or that there is discrepancy that needs to be looked at:

http://www.livescience.com/4846-eruption...world.html

Quote:Historians and archaeologists have had trouble deciding on the year
Thera erupted, with dates ranging anywhere from 1645 BC to 1500 BC........

An absence of human remains and valuables like metal suggest that
the Minoan residents of Santorini predicted the eruption and the island
was evacuated, but the culture as a whole did not fare as well.

And you can read about the dating issue here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minoan_eruption

So my argument is that the archeologists may be off on their dates up to about 100 years, but it's easier to just go with the old statement of "The truth is likely closer to the middle" and say around 1550-1570 BC until more data is collected. However, I am pretty confident that is the event we should be looking at here in regards to the subject. Exodus might not even be specifically about people leaving Egypt, but rather about the Minoan evacuation of Santorini. So it's hard to say how much is fact and how much is purely embellished mythology. And we know there is no evidence for the existence of Mosses to whom is likely a mythological figure. It's also considered by some as propaganda that yahwists used for their religion as we see a lot of this sort of thing still today. So we will have to leave this at that until there is more information on the subject, and I think we can both at least agree on that Smile

So though you bring up a valid point, I don't think this has a major draw on the subject of the OP.. But I am always open to new information on the Exodus time table.. Something we probably could have had if the library of Alexandria was never torched by some group of fanatics.. This is one of the greatest losses of knowledge of the ancient world, and heck book burning / banning is one of Abrahmic religion's favorite things to do when they weren't burning witches.. Something they still do today as you can see when you have fanatics threatened by simple books like Harry potter, or a cartoon about their prophets..

Quote:must have been a watershed event for all humanity as it probably caused crops to fail just about everywhere on earth.

You have no evidence to support this claim unfortunately.. That's a pretty bold claim to make when no such geological evidence exists for that argument. As big as that Eruption was, it was not big enough to have that kind of effect around the world. But you can feel free to provide some peer review work stating such a claim, but I doubt very much you could provide me any such paper. :/

Quote: Probably for a few years running. Undoubtedly resulting in crushing starvation and death on an obscene scale.
Events like that tend to shape history.

Separated from your above claim, I would agree to this part in principle regarding Super Volcanic eruptions of this magnitude as such are civilization ending events within the immediate region as noted...
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