Yay for American gun laws
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03-05-2014, 01:37 PM
RE: Yay for American gun laws
(03-05-2014 01:34 PM)Sam Wrote:  
(03-05-2014 01:12 PM)Chas Wrote:  Why would the arrest "have taken much longer"?

You assume facts not in evidence. He appears to have wanted to kill only his parents.

Have you ever seen the scale of the operation when a gunman is on the loose?

It does take much longer... A crazy man with a gun can take potshots at police or other innocents and remain hidden. So the operation to apprehend him requires far more men, vehicles and care.

Whether or not the man would've killed again I don't know... But for arguments sake, let's assume he would, because these things have happened before.

In order to to commit mass murder with a sword, the man would need to get close to his victims, and could only kill one at a time. A crowd of unarmed pedestrians can quickly overwhelm and disarm someone wielding a blade.

If he'd had a gun he could very easily kill many people from a distance, its very difficult to get close enough to disarm him.

There's a reason why armies ditched pikes and bladed weapons in favour of muskets and rifles... It allows a soldier to attack an enemy from long range, and behind cover.

You can't attack with a melee weapon without exposing yourself.

That's a whole lot of assumptions, therefore a very poor argument.

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03-05-2014, 01:43 PM
RE: Yay for American gun laws
(03-05-2014 01:37 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(03-05-2014 01:34 PM)Sam Wrote:  Have you ever seen the scale of the operation when a gunman is on the loose?

It does take much longer... A crazy man with a gun can take potshots at police or other innocents and remain hidden. So the operation to apprehend him requires far more men, vehicles and care.

Whether or not the man would've killed again I don't know... But for arguments sake, let's assume he would, because these things have happened before.

In order to to commit mass murder with a sword, the man would need to get close to his victims, and could only kill one at a time. A crowd of unarmed pedestrians can quickly overwhelm and disarm someone wielding a blade.

If he'd had a gun he could very easily kill many people from a distance, its very difficult to get close enough to disarm him.

There's a reason why armies ditched pikes and bladed weapons in favour of muskets and rifles... It allows a soldier to attack an enemy from long range, and behind cover.

You can't attack with a melee weapon without exposing yourself.

That's a whole lot of assumptions, therefore a very poor argument.

Alright, here's a scenario...

A man walks into a shopping mall wielding a knife in a threatening manner...

Another man walks into another shopping mall wielding a gun in a threatening manner...

If you were a passerby, which scenario do you think would be easier to escape?

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03-05-2014, 01:59 PM
RE: Yay for American gun laws
(03-05-2014 01:43 PM)Sam Wrote:  
(03-05-2014 01:37 PM)Chas Wrote:  That's a whole lot of assumptions, therefore a very poor argument.

Alright, here's a scenario...

A man walks into a shopping mall wielding a knife in a threatening manner...

Another man walks into another shopping mall wielding a gun in a threatening manner...

If you were a passerby, which scenario do you think would be easier to escape?

That has nothing to do with the article.

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03-05-2014, 02:13 PM
RE: Yay for American gun laws
(03-05-2014 01:43 PM)Sam Wrote:  If you were a passerby, which scenario do you think would be easier to escape?

Well the well trained gun owner argument goes... I don't need to think about escaping if I can take out the threat.

The counter-argument is... well, what if you don't? What if the threat takes out you or you take out some bystander?

I personally prefer to scarper... leave the law enforcement and attendant philosophical problems to them what's paid to do it. But yeah, if I was carrying a gun and knew how to use it and trusted my judgment as to making the shot... I can't see why not.

OTOH, the American law as I understand it is that pretty much everyone apart from criminals and the insane has the right to carry a gun regardless of their competence to use it, which does seem downright dangerous to me. Although that last sentence... could someone (e.g. Chas) comment on the accuracy of it?

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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03-05-2014, 02:21 PM
RE: Yay for American gun laws
By the way, just outta interest, does the Second Ammendment apply to expats? Does the US constitution apply to expats? I mean, if I was living in the US would I have the same rights under the constitution as a citizen? I don't really get this law stuffs so... yeah?

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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03-05-2014, 02:24 PM
RE: Yay for American gun laws
(03-05-2014 02:13 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(03-05-2014 01:43 PM)Sam Wrote:  If you were a passerby, which scenario do you think would be easier to escape?

Well the well trained gun owner argument goes... I don't need to think about escaping if I can take out the threat.

The counter-argument is... well, what if you don't? What if the threat takes out you or you take out some bystander?

I personally prefer to scarper... leave the law enforcement and attendant philosophical problems to them what's paid to do it. But yeah, if I was carrying a gun and knew how to use it and trusted my judgment as to making the shot... I can't see why not.

OTOH, the American law as I understand it is that pretty much everyone apart from criminals and the insane has the right to carry a gun regardless of their competence to use it, which does seem downright dangerous to me. Although that last sentence... could someone (e.g. Chas) comment on the accuracy of it?

It depends on the jurisdiction.

Each state has its own laws regarding carrying firearms. Some states (e.g. Vermont) do not require a permit to carry a weapon.

Some states (e.g. Massachusetts) not only require a permit, but require training.


If you are interested in the varieties of firearm experience, this website is helpful.

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03-05-2014, 02:32 PM
RE: Yay for American gun laws
(03-05-2014 02:21 PM)morondog Wrote:  By the way, just outta interest, does the Second Ammendment apply to expats? Does the US constitution apply to expats? I mean, if I was living in the US would I have the same rights under the constitution as a citizen? I don't really get this law stuffs so... yeah?

The laws apply equally to all legal residents, citizen or not.
I don't know about visitors or illegals.

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03-05-2014, 02:46 PM
RE: Yay for American gun laws
(03-05-2014 01:59 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(03-05-2014 01:43 PM)Sam Wrote:  Alright, here's a scenario...

A man walks into a shopping mall wielding a knife in a threatening manner...

Another man walks into another shopping mall wielding a gun in a threatening manner...

If you were a passerby, which scenario do you think would be easier to escape?

That has nothing to do with the article.

The article also has nothing to do with the OP. Just sayin'....

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

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03-05-2014, 02:47 PM
RE: Yay for American gun laws
(03-05-2014 02:46 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  
(03-05-2014 01:59 PM)Chas Wrote:  That has nothing to do with the article.

The article also has nothing to do with the OP. Just sayin'....

It does. It is counterpoint to the idea that guns are the problem.

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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03-05-2014, 03:07 PM
RE: Yay for American gun laws
(03-05-2014 02:47 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(03-05-2014 02:46 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  The article also has nothing to do with the OP. Just sayin'....

It does. It is counterpoint to the idea that guns are the problem.

Nope. The article has nothing whatsoever to do with guns. It is entirely irrelevant to a gun debate.

Your article was about an obviously mentally disturbed person and samurai swords.

The OP is about someone who, other than his ridiculous display of "my dick is bigger than yours" which resulted in a preventable death, was an average american male who unfortunately bought into the paranoid rhetoric that perpetuates the needless violent culture we have.

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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