Yay for American gun laws
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05-05-2014, 08:46 AM
RE: Yay for American gun laws
(05-05-2014 08:40 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(05-05-2014 08:17 AM)Dom Wrote:  I prefer the intruder has a gun - better to die that way than to be strangled, hit over the head with a fire poker, stabbed, beaten to death and what have you. In that situation, the gun is a kindness.


Really? Cause I see my chances as way better against a guy with a baseball bat over a guy with a gun.

I don't, i am female and I don't stand a chance against a guy with a baseball bat.

I don't fancy getting painfully beat to death with one. I prefer it be over quickly.

I am talking about self defense here. Without my gun I don't stand a chance in hell, and if the other guy doesn't have a gun either, it would be one very painful last experience. I pass.

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05-05-2014, 08:51 AM
RE: Yay for American gun laws
(05-05-2014 08:17 AM)Dom Wrote:  I prefer the intruder has a gun - better to die that way than to be strangled, hit over the head with a fire poker, stabbed, beaten to death and what have you. In that situation, the gun is a kindness.

I prefer the intruder has a gun - that way there is no question that I was justified in shooting his sorry ass. Tongue

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05-05-2014, 08:55 AM
RE: Yay for American gun laws
(05-05-2014 08:40 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(05-05-2014 08:17 AM)Dom Wrote:  I prefer the intruder has a gun - better to die that way than to be strangled, hit over the head with a fire poker, stabbed, beaten to death and what have you. In that situation, the gun is a kindness.


Really? Cause I see my chances as way better against a guy with a baseball bat over a guy with a gun. For the record, mass-stabbings generally seem to end up with far fewer casualties. I'll take the 22 wounded by some disturbed 10th grader over any other fatal shooting. Had James Holmes walked into that movie theater with a knife or a bat and started randomly attacking people, how many more would still be alive today? Almost assuredly more of them. Had this asshole in Montana not had that shotgun at his disposal, would Diren Dede still be alive today? Almost assuredly.


This mentality that it's okay to shoot first and ask questions later is all a little fucked in the head, and frankly that scares the shit out of me.

The story in the OP describes someone who isn't right in the head and should be prosecuted.

However, there are situations where there simply isn't a need to ask questions - the threat is clear.

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05-05-2014, 09:24 AM
RE: Yay for American gun laws
(05-05-2014 08:51 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(05-05-2014 08:17 AM)Dom Wrote:  I prefer the intruder has a gun - better to die that way than to be strangled, hit over the head with a fire poker, stabbed, beaten to death and what have you. In that situation, the gun is a kindness.

I prefer the intruder has a gun - that way there is no question that I was justified in shooting his sorry ass. Tongue

I would prefer no intruder.
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05-05-2014, 09:28 AM
RE: Yay for American gun laws
(05-05-2014 09:24 AM)wazzel Wrote:  
(05-05-2014 08:51 AM)Chas Wrote:  I prefer the intruder has a gun - that way there is no question that I was justified in shooting his sorry ass. Tongue

I would prefer no intruder.

Sometimes the intruder has other ideas.

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05-05-2014, 09:35 AM
RE: Yay for American gun laws
While I agree that psychological evaluations may be a good idea before allowing someone to own a gun, there is also the fact that a person's stability and/or mental health isn't something that necessarily stays constant.

There is no way to be sure that guns are only allowed in the hands of responsible, sane people. No more so than there is any way to be sure someone with a car won't drive it into a crowd or that a person with Internet access won't go online and find out how to build a bomb.

A person who is determined to cause injury or death is going to figure out a way and the easiest target are those that aren't equipped to defend themselves.

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05-05-2014, 11:57 AM (This post was last modified: 05-05-2014 12:00 PM by EvolutionKills.)
RE: Yay for American gun laws
(05-05-2014 08:46 AM)Dom Wrote:  
(05-05-2014 08:40 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Really? Cause I see my chances as way better against a guy with a baseball bat over a guy with a gun.

I don't, i am female and I don't stand a chance against a guy with a baseball bat.

I don't fancy getting painfully beat to death with one. I prefer it be over quickly.

I am talking about self defense here. Without my gun I don't stand a chance in hell, and if the other guy doesn't have a gun either, it would be one very painful last experience. I pass.

Right, and likewise firearms can also allow a single person to cause far more serious injury and death to far more individuals than they could otherwise beating, stabbing, strangling, or otherwise mauling people to death.

If you think that you need a weapon to defend yourself, then there is something fundamentally wrong with where you live. How do we go about fixing that? I don't know. I doubt that firearm legislation is a magical cure all. I can't help but draw lines between gun violence, gun access, education, wealth inequality, and religiosity. Which ones cause or affect the others is debatable, but one can't help but look at the liberal secular democracies of Europe and contrast it with the United States.

I think there is something fundamentally flawed with the society, and I think the best way correct that is from the ground up through education (once we fix education after we get money out of politics with a Constitutional Amendment, there are many steps to be taken here). We need to fundamentally undermine the underlying reasons why people think they need guns. I think that would be the best way to tackle the problem, but it's a very 'long game' take on the issue.

We need to get our society to the point where almost nobody can reasonably justify the need of keeping a weapon for self defense. That's a much bigger problem to tackle than just passing some token gun reform. Great Britain's beat cops (the bobbies) can do their jobs without needing guns, how amazing is that?

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05-05-2014, 12:27 PM
RE: Yay for American gun laws
(05-05-2014 11:57 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(05-05-2014 08:46 AM)Dom Wrote:  I don't, i am female and I don't stand a chance against a guy with a baseball bat.

I don't fancy getting painfully beat to death with one. I prefer it be over quickly.

I am talking about self defense here. Without my gun I don't stand a chance in hell, and if the other guy doesn't have a gun either, it would be one very painful last experience. I pass.

Right, and likewise firearms can also allow a single person to cause far more serious injury and death to far more individuals than they could otherwise beating, stabbing, strangling, or otherwise mauling people to death.

If you think that you need a weapon to defend yourself, then there is something fundamentally wrong with where you live. How do we go about fixing that? I don't know. I doubt that firearm legislation is a magical cure all. I can't help but draw lines between gun violence, gun access, education, wealth inequality, and religiosity. Which ones cause or affect the others is debatable, but one can't help but look at the liberal secular democracies of Europe and contrast it with the United States.

I think there is something fundamentally flawed with the society, and I think the best way correct that is from the ground up through education (once we fix education after we get money out of politics with a Constitutional Amendment, there are many steps to be taken here). We need to fundamentally undermine the underlying reasons why people think they need guns. I think that would be the best way to tackle the problem, but it's a very 'long game' take on the issue.

We need to get our society to the point where almost nobody can reasonably justify the need of keeping a weapon for self defense. That's a much bigger problem to tackle than just passing some token gun reform. Great Britain's beat cops (the bobbies) can do their jobs without needing guns, how amazing is that?

Valid points, but I think it needs to be looked at past the gun. Gun violence is a subset of all violent crime so why not look at ways to reduce all of it?
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05-05-2014, 12:28 PM
RE: Yay for American gun laws
(05-05-2014 08:26 AM)wazzel Wrote:  
(05-05-2014 08:14 AM)Sam Wrote:  Why would the pro-gun side be opposed to restrictions that would simply ensure that guns don't fall into the wrong hands?

In my mind, a gun should be licensed like a vehicle, only much more strictly.

- A background check.
- A psychological evaluation.
- Basic instruction on gun handling and safety.
- A written test.
- A practical test.

Ideally it should be repeated every few years... The psychological aspect being the most important in my mind.

In my opinion, if you can demonstrate that you have a clean record, are of sound mind, and know how to handle and store a gun safely... Then good hunting sir.

IMO becasue of the all or nothing way the debate has become politicalized.

Personally I am for regulated gun ownership. I am fine with licensing and testing even tho I do not know how much it will help. I have a friend that is a cop in South Africa. They have extreemly strict fire arms laws and ownership is severly restricted, but still a very violent place.

But then South Africa has a shit load of corruption problems, and some areas that are essentially lawless.

I've always thought that every gun's ballistic fingerprint should be recorded and stored on a database, along with its owner's details... Seems like an obvious thing to do.

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05-05-2014, 12:34 PM
RE: Yay for American gun laws
(05-05-2014 12:28 PM)Sam Wrote:  
(05-05-2014 08:26 AM)wazzel Wrote:  IMO becasue of the all or nothing way the debate has become politicalized.

Personally I am for regulated gun ownership. I am fine with licensing and testing even tho I do not know how much it will help. I have a friend that is a cop in South Africa. They have extreemly strict fire arms laws and ownership is severly restricted, but still a very violent place.

But then South Africa has a shit load of corruption problems, and some areas that are essentially lawless.

I've always thought that every gun's ballistic fingerprint should be recorded and stored on a database, along with its owner's details... Seems like an obvious thing to do.
So I guess there is more than strict gun laws required to address violent crime? Which was my point.
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