Yes a God, no afterlife
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26-05-2017, 10:42 AM
RE: Yes a God, no afterlife
(26-05-2017 08:59 AM)Richard Wrote:  This will be very brief at this time - I have been researching about the Universe and life on planet Earth for several years. Through my reading and studying I have come to believe there is a God who created the Universe and all the natural laws. I have also come to believe that there is no afterlife.

I welcome all who have similar "thoughts" as I do. Together in our discussions we can grow as individuals and as a community.

I have one major rule to all who wish to post - Posts of "I am right and you are wrong" will not be accepted. I look at this thread to be one of DISCUSSION.

More later.

Richard

What is the point then? If there is no pre life and no afterlife then there doesn't need to be a magical factory boss either.

Deism is simply another gap answer.

I think the better explanation as to why god claims exist is that humans mostly get sold them at birth and like the idea of it because it comforts them.

If you can accept that Thor is NOT a good explanation to explain the cause of lightening, and you can accept the ocean god Poseidon is not a good gap answer to explain the cause of hurricanes, why would the universe itself need a God either?

Thomas Jefferson was his own brand of Christian/Unitarian deist, he too would if alive today claim that "God started it, but did nothing after the initial start".

Nope sorry, that is still simply a watered down gap answer.

Stephen Hawking "A God is not required".

I agree. Not only is it not required, it also suffers the problem of infinite regress.

Deism has no more evidence than pointing to a specific god.

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26-05-2017, 10:44 AM
RE: Yes a God, no afterlife
(26-05-2017 10:36 AM)jennybee Wrote:  I believe in the Almighty Cupcake. His cake-y body and chocolaty goodness were given up for you...
"With this cupcake, you receive his body.."
*hands over mini cupcake*
"..and this is his blood"
*gives a capri-sun*

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26-05-2017, 10:53 AM
RE: Yes a God, no afterlife
(26-05-2017 10:40 AM)Heath_Tierney Wrote:  
(26-05-2017 10:29 AM)julep Wrote:  I already have an invisible dragon in my garage who refuses to interact with my universe--don't think there's room enough in there for a deity, too. (Even with the patio furniture out of storage.)

The vet bills must be outrageous!

I've been thinking about getting my own invisible dragon. How often do you have to change the litter? Is there a kennel I can keep it when we go away for weekends?

Oh, you should definitely get one! Ours has always been quite healthy (fingers crossed!), no vets needed except for the occasional rabies shot. Every invisible garage dragon is adept at foraging for itself and is extremely neat; you'll barely know it's there!
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26-05-2017, 10:55 AM
RE: Yes a God, no afterlife
(26-05-2017 10:53 AM)julep Wrote:  
(26-05-2017 10:40 AM)Heath_Tierney Wrote:  The vet bills must be outrageous!

I've been thinking about getting my own invisible dragon. How often do you have to change the litter? Is there a kennel I can keep it when we go away for weekends?

Oh, you should definitely get one! Ours has always been quite healthy (fingers crossed!), no vets needed except for the occasional rabies shot. Every invisible garage dragon is adept at foraging for itself and is extremely neat; you'll barely know it's there!

I can't find my invisible dragon anywhere...

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26-05-2017, 10:58 AM
RE: Yes a God, no afterlife
(26-05-2017 10:55 AM)OakTree500 Wrote:  I can't find my invisible dragon anywhere...

Check the peanut butter for footprints. They have a thing for peanut butter.
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26-05-2017, 11:38 AM
RE: Yes a God, no afterlife
I’m blown away by all the posts I have received. Thank you. I’ll respond back later today.

Perhaps some background about myself and the journey I have made.

I was raised in the Lutheran faith. I am still a member of a Lutheran church. As stated in my first post, during the past several years I have been studying the Universe and life on planet Earth.

During my studies of the Universe I researched the beginning of the Universe and the theories developed by physicists. The theories seemed to all try to avoid the issue of the Universe being created by a God. Even more interesting has been that physicists have determined that the Universe is very VERY fine tuned. So fine tuned that the Universe to have come into existence solely by chance was extremely improbable. That probability has been calculated to be 10 to the minus 100 power and less.

Okay, I will stop for now. I hope that has whet your appetite for some discussion. I can tell it already has.

Richard
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26-05-2017, 11:42 AM
RE: Yes a God, no afterlife
(26-05-2017 11:38 AM)Richard Wrote:  ...
During my studies of the Universe I researched the beginning of the Universe and the theories developed by physicists. The theories seemed to all try to avoid the issue of the Universe being created by a God.
...

Because the models work without that assumption ... for which there is no evidence.

(26-05-2017 11:38 AM)Richard Wrote:  ...
Even more interesting has been that physicists have determined that the Universe is very VERY fine tuned. So fine tuned that the Universe to have come into existence solely by chance was extremely improbable. That probability has been calculated to be 10 to the minus 100 power and less.
...

All that means is that if the initial conditions had been different then things would have been different.

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26-05-2017, 11:44 AM
RE: Yes a God, no afterlife
(26-05-2017 11:38 AM)Richard Wrote:  ... physicists have determined that the Universe is very VERY fine tuned. So fine tuned that the Universe to have come into existence solely by chance was extremely improbable. That probability has been calculated to be 10 to the minus 100 power and less.

The "fine tuning" hypothesis - it's not really a theory - actually argues against a deity, not for one.

If such a deity were omnipotent, it wouldn't have to fine-tune an environment suitable for sentient, carbon-based life. It would just generate life out of the universe as it was, rather than fine-tune it.

All that said, the "fine tuning" argument has already been thoroughly debunked. Here's a small taste of how:


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26-05-2017, 11:45 AM
RE: Yes a God, no afterlife
(26-05-2017 11:38 AM)Richard Wrote:  Even more interesting has been that physicists have determined that the Universe is very VERY fine tuned. So fine tuned that the Universe to have come into existence solely by chance was extremely improbable. That probability has been calculated to be 10 to the minus 100 power and less.

"This is rather as if you imagine a puddle waking up one morning and thinking, 'This is an interesting world I find myself in — an interesting hole I find myself in — fits me rather neatly, doesn't it? In fact it fits me staggeringly well, must have been made to have me in it!' This is such a powerful idea that as the sun rises in the sky and the air heats up and as, gradually, the puddle gets smaller and smaller, frantically hanging on to the notion that everything's going to be alright, because this world was meant to have him in it, was built to have him in it; so the moment he disappears catches him rather by surprise."

Don't be caught by surprise, oh learner of the universe Drinking Beverage



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26-05-2017, 11:47 AM (This post was last modified: 26-05-2017 11:54 AM by unfogged.)
RE: Yes a God, no afterlife
(26-05-2017 11:38 AM)Richard Wrote:  During my studies of the Universe I researched the beginning of the Universe and the theories developed by physicists. The theories seemed to all try to avoid the issue of the Universe being created by a God.

It isn't that they are trying to avoid any particular conclusion, it is that they are trying to avoid assuming a conclusion that is not directly supported by evidence.

Quote:Even more interesting has been that physicists have determined that the Universe is very VERY fine tuned.

Citation required. What physicists make that claim?

<removed Sean Carroll link that HT already posted while I was looking for it>

Quote:So fine tuned that the Universe to have come into existence solely by chance was extremely improbable. That probability has been calculated to be 10 to the minus 100 power and less.

To calculate probability you need to know have many possibilities there are. We do not know that in the case of the universe. We have a single universe to examine and no way to determine that things could have been different. Any claim of probability is meaningless.

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