Yet another approach to secular morality
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07-09-2015, 08:34 AM
Yet another approach to secular morality
Since the horse is not dead, yet, I will continue beating him.

This is a novel approach to the question of "is there a basis for secular morality that can be solidly rooted in our experience of the natural world?" YES!!!

1. Acknowledge that no person has a right to rob you of life, liberty, or the pursuit of happiness (within reasonable limits, such as imprisonment for breaking the laws of the land--of course, depending upon the morality of these laws).

2. Our rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness are ours by virtue of our being human beings--not just being citizens of a "free" country.

3. Other human beings have the same rights as we do (by virtue of their being human beings).

4. To injudiciously violate another persons natural and inalienable rights is to commit an immoral act.

If we believe absurdities, we shall commit atrocities.--Voltaire.

"To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason is like administering medicine to the dead." --Thomas Paine.
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07-09-2015, 10:55 AM
RE: Yet another approach to secular morality
Don't take it the wrong way, but i don't see anything novel about it. In fact that seems to be a vision of morality that's about 1500 years old.
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07-09-2015, 12:42 PM
RE: Yet another approach to secular morality
(07-09-2015 10:55 AM)epronovost Wrote:  Don't take it the wrong way, but i don't see anything novel about it. In fact that seems to be a vision of morality that's about 1500 years old.

More like 4000.

#sigh
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07-09-2015, 02:02 PM
RE: Yet another approach to secular morality
(07-09-2015 12:42 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(07-09-2015 10:55 AM)epronovost Wrote:  Don't take it the wrong way, but i don't see anything novel about it. In fact that seems to be a vision of morality that's about 1500 years old.

More like 4000.

I was more refering the principle of charters/bill of individual rights and liberties more than the Golden Rule, but fair point.
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07-09-2015, 02:10 PM
RE: Yet another approach to secular morality
(07-09-2015 08:34 AM)666wannabe Wrote:  Since the horse is not dead, yet, I will continue beating him.

[Image: 108351d1381515339t-dead-its-dead-jim.jpg]

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07-09-2015, 07:01 PM
RE: Yet another approach to secular morality
(07-09-2015 12:42 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(07-09-2015 10:55 AM)epronovost Wrote:  Don't take it the wrong way, but i don't see anything novel about it. In fact that seems to be a vision of morality that's about 1500 years old.

More like 4000.


The problem is that there are so many people who still don't get it. Even after 4000 (or 1500) years, they still think that morality has to be found in a book, rather than in our characters.

If we believe absurdities, we shall commit atrocities.--Voltaire.

"To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason is like administering medicine to the dead." --Thomas Paine.
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07-09-2015, 08:10 PM
RE: Yet another approach to secular morality
(07-09-2015 07:01 PM)666wannabe Wrote:  
(07-09-2015 12:42 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  More like 4000.


The problem is that there are so many people who still don't get it. Even after 4000 (or 1500) years, they still think that morality has to be found in a book, rather than in our characters.

To these people, morality isn't the issue. It's the authority that support it that is important.
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07-09-2015, 09:28 PM
RE: Yet another approach to secular morality
(07-09-2015 08:10 PM)epronovost Wrote:  
(07-09-2015 07:01 PM)666wannabe Wrote:  The problem is that there are so many people who still don't get it. Even after 4000 (or 1500) years, they still think that morality has to be found in a book, rather than in our characters.

To these people, morality isn't the issue. It's the authority that support it that is important.

I think you hit upon the truth. For millennia, Christianity (along with the other Monotheisms) have been able to manipulate and control people through false claims of immorality--instilling feelings of guilt and shame into people. Now, that religion is losing it's monopoly on defining morality, it is freaking out--trying desperately to hold on to that monopoly.

This is why we need to impress on people that there is a very legitimate morality which is based solidly in the real world.

If we believe absurdities, we shall commit atrocities.--Voltaire.

"To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason is like administering medicine to the dead." --Thomas Paine.
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08-09-2015, 06:25 AM
RE: Yet another approach to secular morality
(07-09-2015 09:28 PM)666wannabe Wrote:  
(07-09-2015 08:10 PM)epronovost Wrote:  To these people, morality isn't the issue. It's the authority that support it that is important.

I think you hit upon the truth. For millennia, Christianity (along with the other Monotheisms) have been able to manipulate and control people through false claims of immorality--instilling feelings of guilt and shame into people. Now, that religion is losing it's monopoly on defining morality, it is freaking out--trying desperately to hold on to that monopoly.

This is why we need to impress on people that there is a very legitimate morality which is based solidly in the real world.

Religion domination of the sphere of morality is due to the fact that religion use to be in every single aspect of human life in the past. Everything you did had a religious significance during Antiquity. Gods or their agents were everywhere. The idea that religious life and life in general were two separate thing is a medieval concept developed with the first successful attempt to separate the two at the initiative of the Church which was worried of losing its riches and see its high priesthood secularised itself. Moral fables are the cornerstone of every mythology. That's why it’s only rather recently that the idea of completely secular morality developed itself.
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