Yet another example of Republican Christofascism.
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04-07-2017, 02:08 PM
RE: Yet another example of Republican Christofascism.
When the 13th amendment was ratified into law, the kkk was born. Also the record of treatment of the former slaves by the southern states cannot easily be whitewashed. It took another hundred years to actually finish the civil war.

The official war ended in 1865. In 1964 the civil rights act was passed into law.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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04-07-2017, 06:22 PM
RE: Yet another example of Republican Christofascism.
(04-07-2017 02:08 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  When the 13th amendment was ratified into law, the kkk was born. Also the record of treatment of the former slaves by the southern states cannot easily be whitewashed. It took another hundred years to actually finish the civil war.

The official war ended in 1865. In 1964 the civil rights act was passed into law.

And the past few years, Republicans have repealed parts of that Act.
The war is STILL being waged. The last time I was in Atlanta, we stopped in the lobby of the First Trust Company of Georgia.
They (still) proudly display the blackened sooty pediment of the bank from when Sherman burned Atlanta.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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04-07-2017, 06:45 PM
RE: Yet another example of Republican Christofascism.
(04-07-2017 06:22 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(04-07-2017 02:08 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  When the 13th amendment was ratified into law, the kkk was born. Also the record of treatment of the former slaves by the southern states cannot easily be whitewashed. It took another hundred years to actually finish the civil war.

The official war ended in 1865. In 1964 the civil rights act was passed into law.

And the past few years, Republicans have repealed parts of that Act.
The war is STILL being waged. The last time I was in Atlanta, we stopped in the lobby of the First Trust Company of Georgia.
They (still) proudly display the blackened sooty pediment of the bank from when Sherman burned Atlanta.

You're right, I should have mentioned that fact.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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05-07-2017, 01:30 AM
RE: Yet another example of Republican Christofascism.
(04-07-2017 01:50 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(04-07-2017 12:14 PM)BlkFnx Wrote:  I am not saying that slavery was not a reason. It wa not however the only reason why jeff moved out. What i am saying is if the guy who started the fight is saying he doesn't give a shit about slavery. Then the fight cannot be said to be about slavery. Again part of the reason jeff decided to move out was motivated by slavery. It still doesn't mean the fight was about slavery.

Bullshit. Jefferson Davis wanted to keep the free labor. That was it. That was at the heart of the issue. The cotton gin was a huge game changer in the south. The more slaves the more cotton -- pre-civil war, the south supplied cotton to nearly all the world and certainly all of Europe. The war caused a price surge in European countries for frabric and textiles.

Really think about that for a moment. The south supplied the majority of cotton to the world.

Jefferson Davis refused to believe the south was losing and was even more delusional, remaining hopeful that the south could still win -- long after the war ended.

Jefferson Davis also ordered conscription, and at the end ordered Robert E Lee to use slaves. The war was already lost by that point and the slaves were already freed by that point too.

Regarding Lincoln, he was no fool and knew the economics behind slavery. He also understood the pressure the country was facing because of it. Europe and our allies had already outlawed the practice and felt the US should also step up if they were to be taken seriously. He also wanted peace and understood that real change takes time. As the war dragged on far longer than anyone imagined, he felt no choice but to rip the bandaid off quickly. But he believed strongly that the United States should not be divided -- and did actively look for a solution that everyone could live with.

But he also believed that slavery needed to go and was very aware our countries founding fathers debated hotly this topic.

The south, meanwhile, wealthy plantation owners were funneling money into the north fueling anti-war sentiment that was felt. They believed if the north would just give up, they could just carry on. Even that thought was flawed. The south continued holding slave auctions up until word of Lee's formal surrender reached them.

The confederate flag was morphed into something almost romantic, where people, like yourself I assume, try to retell the narrative so it doesn't seem as bad.

The civil war was a complex machine but at the heart of its economic endurance lay the slave. People who try to say it wasn't about that or it was just about states rights, ok...it was the right of the state's to buy and sell other humans as chattel.

Let's not forget the last part.

please restate my position for me because I don't think I am saying what you think I am saying. You don't have to agree with my position I just want to make sure you understand what it is so I know we are not talking past each other.
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05-07-2017, 03:27 AM
RE: Yet another example of Republican Christofascism.
(05-07-2017 01:30 AM)BlkFnx Wrote:  please restate my position for me because I don't think I am saying what you think I am saying. You don't have to agree with my position I just want to make sure you understand what it is so I know we are not talking past each other.

You appear to be attempting to revise history to make the guys in the South look less like the "bastards who went to war over the right to own slaves" and more like "poor farmers who were mightily oppressed by the horrible rich people up North".

You've not responded so far as I can see to Bucky's providing documents from the Southern States themselves, stating their reasons for seceding.

There is a lot of info on Wikipedia available about this topic. I know it's not the greatest source, but I find it useful for a basic run-down of virtually any topic. Your narrative appears to contradict the standard one.

For example IIRC there were many laws preceding the actual emancipation proclamation which were either aimed at freeing the slaves or placating the South to keep them in the Union by e.g. promising that escaped slaves would be returned. This seems to directly contradict your premise that slavery was not an important reason that the war happened.

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If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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05-07-2017, 04:15 AM
RE: Yet another example of Republican Christofascism.
Incidentally, this wikipedia article states that the consensus among historians is that the *primary* cause of the war was disagreements over slavery.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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05-07-2017, 04:31 AM
RE: Yet another example of Republican Christofascism.
(05-07-2017 04:15 AM)morondog Wrote:  Incidentally, this wikipedia article states that the consensus among historians is that the *primary* cause of the war was disagreements over slavery.

The majority of people in the world including theologians and for most of history scientists also believe in the supernatural. I don't care what the majority of anyone believes I care about getting to the truth in so far as it may be known.

Please restate my position not what my position appears to be.
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05-07-2017, 05:07 AM
RE: Yet another example of Republican Christofascism.
(05-07-2017 04:31 AM)BlkFnx Wrote:  
(05-07-2017 04:15 AM)morondog Wrote:  Incidentally, this wikipedia article states that the consensus among historians is that the *primary* cause of the war was disagreements over slavery.

The majority of people in the world including theologians and for most of history scientists also believe in the supernatural. I don't care what the majority of anyone believes I care about getting to the truth in so far as it may be known.

Please restate my position not what my position appears to be.

Brother, if you disagree with historians then it's for you to provide justification. If I've misstated your position it's for you to correct that misstatement. How the fuck am I supposed to read your mind? Stop being a prat.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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05-07-2017, 05:11 AM
RE: Yet another example of Republican Christofascism.
(05-07-2017 05:07 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(05-07-2017 04:31 AM)BlkFnx Wrote:  The majority of people in the world including theologians and for most of history scientists also believe in the supernatural. I don't care what the majority of anyone believes I care about getting to the truth in so far as it may be known.

Please restate my position not what my position appears to be.

Brother, if you disagree with historians then it's for you to provide justification. If I've misstated your position it's for you to correct that misstatement. How the fuck am I supposed to read your mind? Stop being a prat.
I am attempting to prove my justification.

When communicating there are three things.
There is what the person meant.
There is what the person said.
There is what the other person hears.
I am trying to make sure that what I meant and what you heard(read) are the same thing. That is why I am asking you to restate my position.
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05-07-2017, 05:12 AM
RE: Yet another example of Republican Christofascism.
(05-07-2017 05:07 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(05-07-2017 04:31 AM)BlkFnx Wrote:  The majority of people in the world including theologians and for most of history scientists also believe in the supernatural. I don't care what the majority of anyone believes I care about getting to the truth in so far as it may be known.

Please restate my position not what my position appears to be.

Brother, if you disagree with historians then it's for you to provide justification. If I've misstated your position it's for you to correct that misstatement. How the fuck am I supposed to read your mind? Stop being a prat.

They obviously don't know The Truth.

It's always funny how easy is to spot the troll.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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