You Are More Likely To Be Shot If There Is A Gun in The Home
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24-07-2017, 11:24 AM
RE: You Are More Likely To Be Shot If There Is A Gun in The Home
I've read this entire and I'm honestly not following the point. Is the argument that you're not more likely to get shot having a gun in your house? Because that's clearly ridiculous. Or, is it that your life is in no more danger? That is not born out by facts. Domestic violence stats alone disprove that.

I also don't get why suicide numbers don't count. Suicide is much more likely to be successful with a gun than most other means.

Finally, insurance companies don't bend to narratives. Rates are based on actuarial data. If insurance companies are charging more because you have a gun in your house, it's because they have data that supports that. That insurance companies charge that way is, to me, fairly conclusive evidence the OP premise is wrong.

You want a gun, have a fucking gun. But, the facts about the risk of having one don't change because you don't like them.

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When ignorance reigns, life is lost
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24-07-2017, 11:37 AM
RE: You Are More Likely To Be Shot If There Is A Gun in The Home
(24-07-2017 11:24 AM)BnW Wrote:  I've read this entire and I'm honestly not following the point. Is the argument that you're not more likely to get shot having a gun in your house? Because that's clearly ridiculous. Or, is it that your life is in no more danger? That is not born out by facts. Domestic violence stats alone disprove that.

I also don't get why suicide numbers don't count. Suicide is much more likely to be successful with a gun than most other means.

Finally, insurance companies don't bend to narratives. Rates are based on actuarial data. If insurance companies are charging more because you have a gun in your house, it's because they have data that supports that. That insurance companies charge that way is, to me, fairly conclusive evidence the OP premise is wrong.

You want a gun, have a fucking gun. But, the facts about the risk of having one don't change because you don't like them.

Yes and no.

If you want one the 2nd certainly protects that right, but no, I do not think we should be lazy in or vetting. I get so sick of the bullshit argument "responsible gun owner", nobody is arguing that, but keeping firearms out of the wrong hands benefits the "responsible gun owners" too, and the far right no rules idiots never want to look at it like that. A safer society benefits everyone.

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24-07-2017, 11:42 AM
RE: You Are More Likely To Be Shot If There Is A Gun in The Home
I'm not sure how that is relevant to what I said. I didn't make any comment on who should or should not own a gun. I don't think it's relevant to the original premise.

But, good post.

Shackle their minds when they're bent on the cross
When ignorance reigns, life is lost
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24-07-2017, 12:47 PM
RE: You Are More Likely To Be Shot If There Is A Gun in The Home
(24-07-2017 08:07 AM)Popeyes Pappy Wrote:  
(24-07-2017 06:31 AM)Norm Deplume Wrote:  Really? What do they do when taking statements house-to-house while investigating a crime?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I understood what your original post to mean that you would expect interactions with an armed police officer to be the exception to the rule that your chances of getting shot are higher when there is a gun in the home.

If so then no I don't believe interactions with armed police are an exception. The recent death of Justine Damond is one example of why I don't believe police are an an exception to the rule. This dumb fuck shooting himself in front of a class full of middle school students is another.

Perhaps I did not make myself clear. Aliza wrote "I can't imagine any other scenario in which a gun would enter my home, so any time a gun comes in, it was against my wishes and my chances of getting shot skyrocket."

What I was proposing was a possible scenario where someone other than a burglar might enter with a gun.

“I am not responsible for actions of the imaginary version of me you have inside your head.” - John Scalzi

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24-07-2017, 12:52 PM
RE: You Are More Likely To Be Shot If There Is A Gun in The Home
Based on what I'm seeing in the news about American police, I think I'd rather take my chances with the burglar.

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24-07-2017, 12:58 PM
RE: You Are More Likely To Be Shot If There Is A Gun in The Home
(24-07-2017 07:46 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  
(24-07-2017 06:31 AM)Norm Deplume Wrote:  Really? What do they do when taking statements house-to-house while investigating a crime?

Lol... You really think they go house to house questioning people????


You been watching too much American TV mate...


The cops tell the victims to contact their insurance company, and promptly disappear........
Yours is a very strange fantasy world where police duties consist of ignoring crimes in favour of killing innocent civilians because they can.

Oh, and those voices in your head that prompt you with your peculiar opinions: they are not real.

“I am not responsible for actions of the imaginary version of me you have inside your head.” - John Scalzi

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24-07-2017, 01:12 PM
RE: You Are More Likely To Be Shot If There Is A Gun in The Home
(24-07-2017 12:58 PM)Norm Deplume Wrote:  Yours is a very strange fantasy world where police duties consist of ignoring crimes in favour of killing innocent civilians because they can.

US police routinely ignore property crimes. You might be able to get a patrolman out to file an initial report, but getting a detective to investigate a property crime probably isn't going to happen much of the time.

US police kill innocent civilians with what is to me frightening regularity. It's probably a little more complicated than "because they can", but because they are seldom held responsible for it almost certainly factors into the equation.

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24-07-2017, 01:13 PM
RE: You Are More Likely To Be Shot If There Is A Gun in The Home
(24-07-2017 11:24 AM)BnW Wrote:  I've read this entire and I'm honestly not following the point. Is the argument that you're not more likely to get shot having a gun in your house? Because that's clearly ridiculous. Or, is it that your life is in no more danger? That is not born out by facts. Domestic violence stats alone disprove that.

I also don't get why suicide numbers don't count. Suicide is much more likely to be successful with a gun than most other means.

Finally, insurance companies don't bend to narratives. Rates are based on actuarial data. If insurance companies are charging more because you have a gun in your house, it's because they have data that supports that. That insurance companies charge that way is, to me, fairly conclusive evidence the OP premise is wrong.

You want a gun, have a fucking gun. But, the facts about the risk of having one don't change because you don't like them.
You have to keep in mind that some Opening Posts are inspired by John Barleycorn.
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24-07-2017, 01:18 PM
RE: You Are More Likely To Be Shot If There Is A Gun in The Home
(24-07-2017 12:58 PM)Norm Deplume Wrote:  Yours is a very strange fantasy world where police duties consist of ignoring crimes in favour of killing innocent civilians because they can.

Oh, and those voices in your head that prompt you with your peculiar opinions: they are not real.
There are anti-cop fanatics that like to keep score of the people killed by cops. Happily, they provide their own refutations. One gentleman gleefully points out that three people every day are shot by police. (Note "shot".) The works out to a 1/110,000,000 chance of getting shot by a cop on any given day. He says this is an apocalypse. I find that a bit over-the-top. He also refuses to post his sources and to break down the "three-a-day" into "justified", "unjustified", "accidental", "unclear", etc. because legit shootings would lower the horrific scale of the police rampage of death.

BTW, I believe in stricter civilian oversight of police, and I'm participating in that oversight. My "scorekeeper" friend does not, he just whinges.
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24-07-2017, 01:36 PM
RE: You Are More Likely To Be Shot If There Is A Gun in The Home
(24-07-2017 11:24 AM)BnW Wrote:  I've read this entire and I'm honestly not following the point. Is the argument that you're not more likely to get shot having a gun in your house? Because that's clearly ridiculous. Or, is it that your life is in no more danger? That is not born out by facts. Domestic violence stats alone disprove that.

I also don't get why suicide numbers don't count. Suicide is much more likely to be successful with a gun than most other means.

Finally, insurance companies don't bend to narratives. Rates are based on actuarial data. If insurance companies are charging more because you have a gun in your house, it's because they have data that supports that. That insurance companies charge that way is, to me, fairly conclusive evidence the OP premise is wrong.

You want a gun, have a fucking gun. But, the facts about the risk of having one don't change because you don't like them.

The whole point is the fallacy of not having a gun makes you safer.

Having one or not having a gun changes your likelihood of being killed very little.

......

The method will just be different.

If you live in a shithole, that has high crime - getting or not getting a gun probably won't make much difference for most people ,- as they have no proficiency with firearms.

Best bet - move to where people aren't busy killing each other.

...,.

As far as suicide.... Nobody "cries for help" by sticking a gun in their mouth and lighting one off.... People who commit suicide by firearm are fucking serious about it... Just get out of the way, or you'll get brains on your shoes.... It's better than having them step off a high building and landing on some hapless schmuck who didn't plan on checking out today.

.......................................

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