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19-02-2012, 03:00 PM
RE: You Have Nothing to Add
(19-02-2012 01:38 AM)Egor Wrote:  Here's something we can agree on: Either God exists or God doesn't exist. All anyone cares about is proving one of those hypothesis to be true. The skeptic is just in the stands watching the game.

Game? What game?

(19-02-2012 01:38 AM)Egor Wrote:  But you have already admitted you can't prove God doesn't exist. Great, then I've already made a step forward because now you are no longer an atheist--you are an agnostic. I'm not in combat against agnosticism, just atheism. Because I know that if you and I could have a rational, open minded debate, I could show you that it is most rational to believe in God.

God? What God?

(19-02-2012 01:38 AM)Egor Wrote:  Either God exists or does not exist--we know that. But you won't move to either side, because you don't want to present an argument. That's not being intellectually honest and that's not consistent with a rational scientific approach to knowledge.
But this pseudo-atheism, which is really agnosticism, is just intellectual laziness.

There is quite a variety of skepticism on this forum. Once again, you make blanket statements assuming far too much....

For me, whether God exists or not is irrelevant. I am not being intellectually dishonest nor intellectually lazy, I am simply an Ignostic. I take the position that every other theological position (including agnosticism and atheism) assumes too much about the concept of "God" and most other theological concepts.

It can be defined as encompassing two related views about the existence of God:

The first is the view that a coherent definition of God must be presented before the question of the existence of god can be meaningfully discussed. Furthermore, if that definition is unfalsifiable, the ignostic takes the theological non-cognitivist position that the question of the existence of God (per that definition) is meaningless. In this case, the concept of God is not considered meaningless; the term "God" is considered meaningless.

The second view is synonymous with theological non-cognitivism, and goes straight to the point to proclaim the original question of "Does God exist?" as meaningless.

As an Ignostic, I find fantasy interesting entertainment, but I also find it relatively meaningless. It's influence historically tends to be a waste of time and a waste of life.

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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19-02-2012, 04:06 PM
RE: You Have Nothing to Add
(19-02-2012 02:37 PM)Egor Wrote:  The rest of this post can wither on the vine as far as I'm concerned. In fact, I'll even capitulate: Atheists, even though they won't say "God does not exist." still have something to add to the discussion.

I....but....what? Who are you, and what have you done to the real Egor?
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19-02-2012, 04:22 PM
RE: You Have Nothing to Add
(19-02-2012 06:44 AM)Thinking about Myths Wrote:  I'd ask you why god doesn't heal amputees, stop cancer, feed the starving in Africa, stop global warming, save the polar bears, bring back extinct species, make us immortals, remind us that he exists other than providing us the rare double rainbows Dodgy, or just generally make life pleasurable for every single living creature on this planet. But I've seen so many silly responses, like "he's testing us", or "we don't deserve it".

It's obvious. God hates children, amputees and polar bears.

The old gods are dead, let's invent some new ones before something really bad happens.
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19-02-2012, 04:56 PM
RE: You Have Nothing to Add
Which god? Yahweh does not exist, we can be reasonably certain of that just as we are reasonably certain that Shiva, Brahman, Zeus and Ra don't exist.
Why Yahweh or Jesus Christ get any special treatment is a mystery to me since all of these deities have no evidence to even start a discussion about their existence
let alone prove it beyond reasonable doubt. It's only because more people believe in them.
We can prove particular deities don't exist by analyzing the claims made about them, so we can prove within a good degree of certainty that the god of the Bible is fiction
just as the other deities of human history. You can also look at the history of Yahweh, how he began as a polytheistic deity alongside other deities and evolved into monotheism.

"Yeah, good idea. Make them buy your invisible apple. Insist that they do. Market it properly and don't stop until they pay for it." -Malleus
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20-02-2012, 11:30 AM
RE: You Have Nothing to Add
I'm a "7" atheist when it comes to your religion.

Your god does not exist.

Happy?

Bury me with my guns on, so when I reach the other side - I can show him what it feels like to die.
Bury me with my guns on, so when I'm cast out of the sky, I can shoot the devil right between the eyes.
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20-02-2012, 11:33 AM
RE: You Have Nothing to Add
God is NOT real! It is scam to get your money. God does not exist.
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20-02-2012, 11:54 AM
RE: You Have Nothing to Add
I really can't believe people can be this dense.

I don't believe your god exists. Why? Because there doesn't appear to be any evidence of its existence.

However, if you would show me the evidence, and its valid, I am open to changing my position. I don't need to go searching for evidence (even though I have) or make the opposing claim that god doesn't exist in order for you to show me some evidence that god does exist. The next time I come to you and tell you something exists, and then tell you that you have to prove that it doesn't in order for me to be wrong, then you can accuse me of being lazy.

You cannot disprove a negative. I can't prove to you that Bigfoot does not exist. I can, however, demonstrate to you the unlikeliness that Bigfoot exists. There's no solid evidence. The "evidence" that has been found has been shown to be fraudulent and/or debunked, or at the very least inconclusive. Based on these things, I'm not going to think that Bigfoot exists. However, if someone were to show me some valid evidence that he does exist, I am open to changing my position. It's the same with god.

It's not lazy - it's honest.

Our brains deceive us on a regular basis, so we have to find ways to fight back.
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20-02-2012, 12:20 PM
 
RE: You Have Nothing to Add
Ego,
Do you believe in Xenu?
Do you believe in Zeus?
Do you believe in Hercules?
Do you believe in Dionysus?
Do you believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster?

If you TRULY don't believe...even the most remote possibility they exist and that they are god, then you just need to shut up your skeptical mouth as you have NOTHING to offer the conversation about GOD!

Oh, i forgot GOD DOES NOT EXIST! HOLY SPIRIT DOES NOT EXIST! BABY JESUS, TEEN JESUS, EARLY 20'S JESUS AND BEARDED JESUS DOES NOT AND NEVER EXISTED. Just thought i'd clear up my position in case you were unsure.
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20-02-2012, 01:20 PM
RE: You Have Nothing to Add
Going way back to page 3 for this one...

(19-02-2012 01:38 AM)Egor Wrote:  But why do I have a burden of proof? To whom? Only to those who can say God doesn't exist. Then we each have a burden of proof. This isn't a criminal trial. If I wanted you to believe in God then I would have to meet your burden of proof. But you have already admitted you can't prove God doesn't exist. Great, then I've already made a step forward because now you are no longer an atheist--you are an agnostic. I'm not in combat against agnosticism, just atheism. Because I know that if you and I could have a rational, open minded debate, I could show you that it is most rational to believe in God.

It's not a single line of belief like this:

Atheism_________Agnostic_________Theist

Instead, think of belief as a chart, like this:

[Image: atheist_chart.gif]

Someone isn't just an "agnostic". Agnosticism is just a modifier to the theistic belief terms "theist" and "atheist".

I either "know" God doesn't exist and don't believe, or I "don't know" if God exists and don't believe. The same is true for believers- I either "know" God exists and believe or I "don't know" God exists but still believe anyway.

I don't believe it's possible to "know" whether or not a God exists. But I do see that there doesn't appear to be evidence for a god. I don't know if there is one or not, but I don't believe there is. I am an agnostic atheist as opposed to a gnostic atheist. I am a skeptic.
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20-02-2012, 01:49 PM
 
RE: You Have Nothing to Add
(19-02-2012 01:38 AM)Egor Wrote:  But why do I have a burden of proof? To whom? Only to those who can say God doesn't exist. This isn't a criminal trial.

Wow, just wow!
You require a 'criminal trial' to have to have real proof?

SO, i believe Charlize Theron is magically in love with me and EVERYONE will perish in a flood of astroglide unless pitt bulls are sacrificed to her. Until i go to trial on this Belief of mine, you are just gonna have to believe me! Its up to YOU to prove me wrong.

Its crazy, its whacko...and Is that REALLY how you believe?

YOU are the one making the NON natural EXTRAORDINARY claim.
So, by your argument, YOU EGOR must believe EVERY Scientology's, every big foot siting, every UFO siting, every crop circle...until those arguing AGAINST the claim provide proof.

You truly demonstrate that you have no grasp on reality and how things work.
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