"You are interpreting the bible wrong"
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20-01-2014, 06:13 AM
RE: "You are interpreting the bible wrong"
(10-01-2014 02:19 AM)sporehux Wrote:  .
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20-01-2014, 06:37 AM
RE: "You are interpreting the bible wrong"
(09-01-2014 03:39 AM)Just Another Atheist Wrote:  "Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place." (Matthew 5:17 NAB)

I'm playing devils advocate here, because even as a Christian I could not quite decide what this meant.

Does it mean that Jesus is saying he did not come to abolish the law because the the "messiah" did not come specifically to do that, but since he fulfilled the law perfectly (or whatever) it is automatically abolished for everyone? Almost like, that wasn't his goal, but Christians now claim the law is abolished because Jesus perfectly fuflilled it?

I guess I don't hold this passage against christians when they use it, because to me, it matches their theology (as far as I can tell)
Think about it, to Christians when Jesus was resurrected "all things had taken place", so that is why they feel like there is no law anymore. It's not like they are reading over it because it holds a truth they don't want to acknowledge (unless I am missing something)

Unless I'm missing something...
Feel free to enlighten me, just don't be rude about it (please) Tongue
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20-01-2014, 10:08 AM
RE: "You are interpreting the bible wrong"
(20-01-2014 06:37 AM)crazylikeyou Wrote:  
(09-01-2014 03:39 AM)Just Another Atheist Wrote:  "Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place." (Matthew 5:17 NAB)

I'm playing devils advocate here, because even as a Christian I could not quite decide what this meant.

Does it mean that Jesus is saying he did not come to abolish the law because the the "messiah" did not come specifically to do that, but since he fulfilled the law perfectly (or whatever) it is automatically abolished for everyone? Almost like, that wasn't his goal, but Christians now claim the law is abolished because Jesus perfectly fuflilled it?

I guess I don't hold this passage against christians when they use it, because to me, it matches their theology (as far as I can tell)
Think about it, to Christians when Jesus was resurrected "all things had taken place", so that is why they feel like there is no law anymore. It's not like they are reading over it because it holds a truth they don't want to acknowledge (unless I am missing something)

Unless I'm missing something...
Feel free to enlighten me, just don't be rude about it (please) Tongue

From what I understand (from the Greek and Hebrew), Jesus is saying that His sacrifice frees people from the strict laws that impede the religion. The laws had grown and grown and basically gotten out of control.

However, He wasn't coming to abolish those laws... simply free people from the burden of this fundamentalism. His sacrifice was fulfilling the law and freeing people from the law at the same time because His teachings used the law as a blueprint.

The concepts and nature of the law were incorporated in His teachings; however, the trivial, burdensome laws were done away with as they impeded with the freedom one is supposed to have in salvation.

I'm sure that's as clear as mud... but yeah.

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20-01-2014, 10:18 AM
RE: "You are interpreting the bible wrong"
(20-01-2014 10:08 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(20-01-2014 06:37 AM)crazylikeyou Wrote:  I'm playing devils advocate here, because even as a Christian I could not quite decide what this meant.

Does it mean that Jesus is saying he did not come to abolish the law because the the "messiah" did not come specifically to do that, but since he fulfilled the law perfectly (or whatever) it is automatically abolished for everyone? Almost like, that wasn't his goal, but Christians now claim the law is abolished because Jesus perfectly fuflilled it?

I guess I don't hold this passage against christians when they use it, because to me, it matches their theology (as far as I can tell)
Think about it, to Christians when Jesus was resurrected "all things had taken place", so that is why they feel like there is no law anymore. It's not like they are reading over it because it holds a truth they don't want to acknowledge (unless I am missing something)

Unless I'm missing something...
Feel free to enlighten me, just don't be rude about it (please) Tongue

From what I understand (from the Greek and Hebrew), Jesus is saying that His sacrifice frees people from the strict laws that impede the religion. The laws had grown and grown and basically gotten out of control.

However, He wasn't coming to abolish those laws... simply free people from the burden of this fundamentalism. His sacrifice was fulfilling the law and freeing people from the law at the same time because His teachings used the law as a blueprint.

The concepts and nature of the law were incorporated in His teachings; however, the trivial, burdensome laws were done away with as they impeded with the freedom one is supposed to have in salvation.

I'm sure that's as clear as mud... but yeah.

What is particularly muddy is which laws are abolished? Worst communicator ever. Drinking Beverage

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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20-01-2014, 11:55 AM
RE: "You are interpreting the bible wrong"
(20-01-2014 10:18 AM)Chas Wrote:  What is particularly muddy is which laws are abolished? Worst communicator ever. Drinking Beverage

I know. It's not like I haven't seen people quote the exact same verses as evidence why we either do or do not need to worry about the laws in Leviticus regarding homosexuality. Or better yet, why we need to worry about those Leviticus laws, but not the ones regarding shellfish, mixed fabrics, pork, and slavery.
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20-01-2014, 11:57 AM
RE: "You are interpreting the bible wrong"
(20-01-2014 11:55 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  
(20-01-2014 10:18 AM)Chas Wrote:  What is particularly muddy is which laws are abolished? Worst communicator ever. Drinking Beverage

I know. It's not like I haven't seen people quote the exact same verses as evidence why we either do or do not need to worry about the laws in Leviticus regarding homosexuality. Or better yet, why we need to worry about those Leviticus laws, but not the ones regarding shellfish, mixed fabrics, pork, and slavery.

Its just a picky-choosy kind of thang.Blink

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20-01-2014, 12:02 PM
RE: "You are interpreting the bible wrong"
(20-01-2014 10:08 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  From what I understand (from the Greek and Hebrew), Jesus is saying that His sacrifice frees people from the strict laws that impede the religion. The laws had grown and grown and basically gotten out of control.

However, He wasn't coming to abolish those laws... simply free people from the burden of this fundamentalism. His sacrifice was fulfilling the law and freeing people from the law at the same time because His teachings used the law as a blueprint.

The concepts and nature of the law were incorporated in His teachings; however, the trivial, burdensome laws were done away with as they impeded with the freedom one is supposed to have in salvation.

I'm sure that's as clear as mud... but yeah.

I'd be interested to hear a clearer translation from the Greek and Hebrew. What I get from the passage is that Jesus is declaring himself a Jew in the purest sense, and all Jewish laws are to remain and be followed until heaven and earth pass away (this part is what I'm most interested in hearing a clearer translation, as it's quite pertinent to the passage). This earth is clearly still here, so none of the OT laws should have been abolished.

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

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20-01-2014, 12:04 PM
RE: "You are interpreting the bible wrong"
(20-01-2014 11:55 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  
(20-01-2014 10:18 AM)Chas Wrote:  What is particularly muddy is which laws are abolished? Worst communicator ever. Drinking Beverage

I know. It's not like I haven't seen people quote the exact same verses as evidence why we either do or do not need to worry about the laws in Leviticus regarding homosexuality. Or better yet, why we need to worry about those Leviticus laws, but not the ones regarding shellfish, mixed fabrics, pork, and slavery.

Oh don't forget the ones about killing your children and selling their daughters into slavery.


God is a concept by which we measure our pain -- John Lennon

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20-01-2014, 12:07 PM
RE: "You are interpreting the bible wrong"
(20-01-2014 10:08 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(20-01-2014 06:37 AM)crazylikeyou Wrote:  I'm playing devils advocate here, because even as a Christian I could not quite decide what this meant.

Does it mean that Jesus is saying he did not come to abolish the law because the the "messiah" did not come specifically to do that, but since he fulfilled the law perfectly (or whatever) it is automatically abolished for everyone? Almost like, that wasn't his goal, but Christians now claim the law is abolished because Jesus perfectly fuflilled it?

I guess I don't hold this passage against christians when they use it, because to me, it matches their theology (as far as I can tell)
Think about it, to Christians when Jesus was resurrected "all things had taken place", so that is why they feel like there is no law anymore. It's not like they are reading over it because it holds a truth they don't want to acknowledge (unless I am missing something)

Unless I'm missing something...
Feel free to enlighten me, just don't be rude about it (please) Tongue

From what I understand (from the Greek and Hebrew), Jesus is saying that His sacrifice frees people from the strict laws that impede the religion. The laws had grown and grown and basically gotten out of control.

However, He wasn't coming to abolish those laws... simply free people from the burden of this fundamentalism. His sacrifice was fulfilling the law and freeing people from the law at the same time because His teachings used the law as a blueprint.

The concepts and nature of the law were incorporated in His teachings; however, the trivial, burdensome laws were done away with as they impeded with the freedom one is supposed to have in salvation.

I'm sure that's as clear as mud... but yeah.

What about Matthew 5:17 where jC says that he hasn't come to abolish the law?


God is a concept by which we measure our pain -- John Lennon

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20-01-2014, 12:08 PM
RE: "You are interpreting the bible wrong"
The list is a wee bit longer actually..........
http://leviticusbans.tumblr.com/post/237...-leviticus

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