You atheists enjoy citing anti-religious quotes from the founding fathers...
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12-05-2013, 12:31 AM
You atheists enjoy citing anti-religious quotes from the founding fathers...
As if to appeal to their authority (and reason) on the issue of religion in politics.

Well, how about this quote from an elderly founding father...

"Nothing is more certainly written in the book of fate than that these people are to be free. Nor is it less certain that the two races, equally free, cannot live in the same government. Nature, habit, opinion has drawn indelible lines of distinction between them. It is still in our power to direct the process of emancipation and deportation peaceably and in such slow degree as that the evil will wear off insensibly, and their place be pari passu filled up by free white laborers."

- Thomas Jefferson, Feb. 8, 1821


Oh, but it's only your precious "separation of church and state" that is all that matters when it comes to the insight of founding fathers, right?
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12-05-2013, 12:33 AM
RE: You atheists enjoy citing anti-religious quotes from the founding fathers...
I'm pretty sure you don't need to create a new thread every time you create a new reply. I don't suppose we could get a mod to tidy this up and put 'em all in the same thread...

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12-05-2013, 01:15 AM (This post was last modified: 12-05-2013 01:28 AM by fstratzero.)
RE: You atheists enjoy citing anti-religious quotes from the founding fathers...
Just read this.
http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...#pid307117

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12-05-2013, 02:17 AM
RE: You atheists enjoy citing anti-religious quotes from the founding fathers...
Oh, that quote came from Thomas Jefferson?

I'm sorry, is this Thomas Jeffer-whoever relevant to me, in fact, is this Separation?

No, I shouldn't say they are, considering I make it no business of mine to argue or care about the U.S. separation of church and state, considering they don't affect me in the slightest.
You might want to be a little more considerate about your generalisations in the future.

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12-05-2013, 03:50 AM
RE: You atheists enjoy citing anti-religious quotes from the founding fathers...
(12-05-2013 02:17 AM)Free Thought Wrote:  Oh, that quote came from Thomas Jefferson?

I'm sorry, is this Thomas Jeffer-whoever relevant to me, in fact, is this Separation?

No, I shouldn't say they are, considering I make it no business of mine to argue or care about the U.S. separation of church and state, considering they don't affect me in the slightest.
You might want to be a little more considerate about your generalisations in the future.

... and furthermore, Jefferson, like all of us, a product of his times, has been proved to be wrong on both counts.

He didn't know about evolution so he was not aware that 'race' is just a human construct and in hindsight, separation of church and state was a big mistake. Much better to have let the idiots carry on killing each other and now the US would not have such an embarrassing god-problem.


More relevant to you FT, is what ya gonna do when god-botherer Tony Abbott gets into power in September?

Shocking

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12-05-2013, 04:14 AM
RE: You atheists enjoy citing anti-religious quotes from the founding fathers...
(12-05-2013 03:50 AM)DLJ Wrote:  
(12-05-2013 02:17 AM)Free Thought Wrote:  Oh, that quote came from Thomas Jefferson?

I'm sorry, is this Thomas Jeffer-whoever relevant to me, in fact, is this Separation?

No, I shouldn't say they are, considering I make it no business of mine to argue or care about the U.S. separation of church and state, considering they don't affect me in the slightest.
You might want to be a little more considerate about your generalisations in the future.

... and furthermore, Jefferson, like all of us, a product of his times, has been proved to be wrong on both counts.

He didn't know about evolution so he was not aware that 'race' is just a human construct and in hindsight, separation of church and state was a big mistake. Much better to have let the idiots carry on killing each other and now the US would not have such an embarrassing god-problem.


More relevant to you FT, is what ya gonna do when god-botherer Tony Abbott gets into power in September?

Shocking

I have my doubts that he will get into power, even if he did manage to, he would probably be over-turned at every point by the rest of the government, probably including some of his own, assuming he is not disposed of outright.

If he does get into power, I will probably go on with my life, after all, not much an uncharismatic 17-18 year old student can do.

... then again, people do say i would fit in well in the world of politics, and both Abbot and Gillard are living proof you don't need to be charismatic to get into a position of power.

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12-05-2013, 04:32 AM
RE: You atheists enjoy citing anti-religious quotes from the founding fathers...
(12-05-2013 12:31 AM)Spectral-Rothbardian Wrote:  ...emancipation and deportation...

I liked the part where he didn't dream small and say that people could live segregated, but he dreamed big of actually deporting every black person off the continent.

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12-05-2013, 04:45 AM
RE: You atheists enjoy citing anti-religious quotes from the founding fathers...
"You atheists" ??????????????
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12-05-2013, 05:01 AM
RE: You atheists enjoy citing anti-religious quotes from the founding fathers...
I am reading this quote and reading it again and I still don't see anything religious about it. What is it in it that has anything to do with atheists? The mention of the book of fate is not religious, just in a fate sense. Thomas Jefferson is saying that is is the future, the sure fate of all people to be free, it was the future he saw.

So, what is it that you meant to ask, or say with this quote? Because it is a nice quote, insightful, poetic, well said. Nothing wrong there, and I don't see how it is connected to atheism, in any sense?

Confused here...

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12-05-2013, 07:11 AM
RE: You atheists enjoy citing anti-religious quotes from the founding fathers...
(12-05-2013 05:01 AM)Filox Wrote:  I am reading this quote and reading it again and I still don't see anything religious about it. What is it in it that has anything to do with atheists? The mention of the book of fate is not religious, just in a fate sense. Thomas Jefferson is saying that is is the future, the sure fate of all people to be free, it was the future he saw.

So, what is it that you meant to ask, or say with this quote? Because it is a nice quote, insightful, poetic, well said. Nothing wrong there, and I don't see how it is connected to atheism, in any sense?

Confused here...

His point is that Jefferson said something racist - two races equally free cannot coexist in the same government, nature draws distinctions between them, but slaves should be free so they should be emancipated/deported and replaced with white workers.

But it is a strawman argument.

When an atheist pulls out founding fathers quotes they usually do so because a Christian has just said something along the lines of "America is a Christian nation" or "This was founded a Christian country" - which is bollocks. So people pull out the quotes of the founding fathers proving that the country was founded as a secular nation by generally Christian people (a very different thing). They aren't saying the founding fathers were perfectly moral people, they are making a point about the intentions of those people when they founded their new country, which have been misunderstood/misrepresented by the Christian.
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