You can be the better/stronger person without atheism
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16-10-2014, 12:49 AM (This post was last modified: 16-10-2014 12:53 AM by MattMVS7.)
RE: You can be the better/stronger person without atheism
(16-10-2014 12:28 AM)Free Thought Wrote:  
(15-10-2014 11:32 PM)MattMVS7 Wrote:  As it turns out, here is something that I think is scientific evidence:

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/deat...ous-people

"Are Religious People Happier Than Non-religious People?" The answer in that article, interesting enough can be neatly rounded up as 'Kinda, but only situationally'.

According to the article, religion and happiness do not necessarily go together, but rather social connectivity and happiness do; religion is just a facilitator of the social connection:
Quote:Diener and Seligman found that statistically controlling for social relationships eliminates the association between religiosity and well-being. In other words, religious people report having more social ties and if you take this into account statistically, religion by itself does not predict happiness.

This increased perception of happiness tends to only apply to religious countries as well:
Quote:Okulicz-Kozaryn found that religion is only associated with greater life satisfaction in countries in which most people are religious. In relatively non-religious nations, religion does not appear to lead to life satisfaction.

I hate to repeat myself but religion is a situational facilitator of social connection: it acts a distinctive group to which the members belong and allows social flow and connection; in-group dynamics are well understood and they are not isolated to religion, being integrated into any group is likely to raise one's sense of happiness.
Yes, that would be the main reason why religious people are more happy is because the belief just acts as a facilitator for social interactions. But there was another reason stated in that article which was:

" Religion may promote happiness for a number of reasons as studies show that religion gives people a sense of purpose and order and serves as a resource for coping with negative life experiences and existential fears (e.g., the fear of death)."

In other words, people with religious belief can be more happy than atheists due to them having a delusional hope in an afterlife of eternal joy of no suffering. These people would then feel that their lives have much more purpose and worth in knowing that, when they die, that they will get what they want in the end which would be heaven. So they then might strive for that reward. As a result of that, they can be motivated to do more greater things in life, help even more people, and have more social interaction than some people do through their atheism. So some atheists (such as myself) are at a true disadvantage.

Yes, some atheists can be more happy through their atheism than religious people because they can be encouraged to interact more socially than some religious people. But there is a form of happiness that all atheists are unable to achieve which would be a form of happiness that would allow some of these atheists to not only be more happy in life than if they were atheists, but to also do more greater things in life and help even more people through the greater happiness that might be achieved if they were to have a religious belief instead. This form of happiness would obviously be in the delusional belief of a God and a heaven.
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16-10-2014, 12:59 AM (This post was last modified: 16-10-2014 01:05 AM by Free Thought.)
RE: You can be the better/stronger person without atheism
(16-10-2014 12:49 AM)MattMVS7 Wrote:  
(16-10-2014 12:28 AM)Free Thought Wrote:  "Are Religious People Happier Than Non-religious People?" The answer in that article, interesting enough can be neatly rounded up as 'Kinda, but only situationally'.

According to the article, religion and happiness do not necessarily go together, but rather social connectivity and happiness do; religion is just a facilitator of the social connection:

This increased perception of happiness tends to only apply to religious countries as well:

I hate to repeat myself but religion is a situational facilitator of social connection: it acts a distinctive group to which the members belong and allows social flow and connection; in-group dynamics are well understood and they are not isolated to religion, being integrated into any group is likely to raise one's sense of happiness.
Yes, that would be the main reason why religious people are more happy is because the belief just acts as a facilitator for social interactions. But there was another reason stated in that article which was:

" Religion may promote happiness for a number of reasons as studies show that religion gives people a sense of purpose and order and serves as a resource for coping with negative life experiences and existential fears (e.g., the fear of death)."

In other words, people with religious belief can be more happy than atheists due to them having a delusional hope in an afterlife of eternal joy of no suffering. These people would then feel that their lives have much more purpose and worth in knowing that, when they die, that they will go to heaven. As a result of that, they can be motivated to do more greater things in life, help even more people, and have more social interaction than some people do through their atheism. So some atheists (such as myself) are at a true disadvantage.

Yes, some atheists can be more happy through their atheism than religious people because they can be encouraged to interact more socially than some religious people. But there is a form of happiness that all atheists are unable to achieve which would be a form of happiness that would allow some of these atheists to not only be more happy in life than if they were atheists, but to also do more greater things in life and help even more people through the greater happiness that might be achieved if they were to have a religious belief instead. This form of happiness would obviously be in the delusional belief of a God and a heaven.

If you are going to base your argument that religious people are happier than their irreligious counterparts on the fact that religious systems supposedly allow coping with death and related issues, than cite an article focusing on that.

This article explicitly focuses on social connectivity leading to greater reported happiness. In fact, the writer went on to say:
Quote:However, a number of studies really seem to suggest that the magic ingredient in religion that provides happiness is social connectedness.
Directly after your quote, and the wording suggests that the author sees the social component to be the 'magic component', instead of the coping mechanism religion provides.

And no; the sentence you quoted does not imply that religious people are happier because they have delusional hope: it was countermanded in the sentence directly after for one, not to mention that the article states that reported happiness is not seen to be especially elevated among the religious when their social groups are controlled for (See: Diener and Seligman paragraph); this creates a direct correlation in the article between happiness of religious people and their religiously-enhanced social ties.

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16-10-2014, 01:24 AM
RE: You can be the better/stronger person without atheism
(16-10-2014 12:59 AM)Free Thought Wrote:  
(16-10-2014 12:49 AM)MattMVS7 Wrote:  Yes, that would be the main reason why religious people are more happy is because the belief just acts as a facilitator for social interactions. But there was another reason stated in that article which was:

" Religion may promote happiness for a number of reasons as studies show that religion gives people a sense of purpose and order and serves as a resource for coping with negative life experiences and existential fears (e.g., the fear of death)."

In other words, people with religious belief can be more happy than atheists due to them having a delusional hope in an afterlife of eternal joy of no suffering. These people would then feel that their lives have much more purpose and worth in knowing that, when they die, that they will go to heaven. As a result of that, they can be motivated to do more greater things in life, help even more people, and have more social interaction than some people do through their atheism. So some atheists (such as myself) are at a true disadvantage.

Yes, some atheists can be more happy through their atheism than religious people because they can be encouraged to interact more socially than some religious people. But there is a form of happiness that all atheists are unable to achieve which would be a form of happiness that would allow some of these atheists to not only be more happy in life than if they were atheists, but to also do more greater things in life and help even more people through the greater happiness that might be achieved if they were to have a religious belief instead. This form of happiness would obviously be in the delusional belief of a God and a heaven.

If you are going to base your argument that religious people are happier than their irreligious counterparts on the fact that religious systems supposedly allow coping with death and related issues, than cite an article focusing on that.

This article explicitly focuses on social connectivity leading to greater reported happiness. In fact, the writer went on to say:
Quote:However, a number of studies really seem to suggest that the magic ingredient in religion that provides happiness is social connectedness.
Directly after your quote, and the wording suggests that the author sees the social component to be the 'magic component', instead of the coping mechanism religion provides.

And no; the sentence you quoted does not imply that religious people are happier because they have delusional hope: it was countermanded in the sentence directly after for one, not to mention that the article states that reported happiness is not seen to be especially elevated among the religious when their social groups are controlled for (See: Diener and Seligman paragraph); this creates a direct correlation in the article between happiness of religious people and their religiously-enhanced social ties.
So maybe it is just the social interaction through religion that promotes the greater happiness. But the delusional hope in a God and a heaven also has some bit of contribution to happiness too. So if we add up these two forms of happiness achieved through religion, it is happiness that is greater than some atheists can achieve through their atheism which is happiness that will even allow these religious people to do even more greater things in life and help even more people through their increased motivation/happiness than people who do through their atheism. So, again, atheists such as myself are at a true disadvantage.
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16-10-2014, 01:45 AM
RE: You can be the better/stronger person without atheism
Now if I was like you I could just do what you did and dismiss that out of hand without ever addressing a single point with a valid criticism. Fortuitously I'm more intellectually honest then you are. I will point out, however, that you don't seem to have any problem at all excepting evidence that (you think, and wrongly) already agrees with you. Funny that. Drinking Beverage
So before I look at it let me ask you a question: why should I not dismiss your "evidence" without consideration as you did mine?I want to know why you feel you should be held to a lesser standard of responsibility and integrity then the rest of us?



Anyway moving on, you really should have read more then the first two sentences of that blog post. Had you done so you would realize that it does not actually support your assertion that a belief in god, even one you know to be false or delusional, is better for you then the lack of that belief. Hell lets look at the title of the thread, in which you assert that
Quote: You can be the better/stronger person without atheism
Now seeing as how atheism is just the lack of a belief in god, to be "without atheism" can only mean to have a belief in god.
Your assertion in this thread is that having a belief in god can make you a better/stronger person. THAT is what you are arguing, that belief makes you better. I'm not even going to get into how that is 100% subjective because to me the cowardly refusal to except reality for any reason is a weakness. It's subjective, you find that cowardice in yourself not only a strength but a thing absolutely needed.

Anyway guess how much what you just linked supports that assertion? Zero %. Not at all, nada, zip, zilch, nothin' kid just a big old goose egg.

That study goes out of it's way to point out that it is in fact NOT the belief that makes people happier but the social interaction.
Quote: However, a number of studies really seem to suggest that the magic ingredient in religion that provides happiness is social connectedness.
Notice how it does not say belief? Like....at all? Human beings are socially evolved animals, the fact that social animals derive happiness from social interaction is not surprising at all, nor is it soemthing religious belief can take credit for.
You put the most religious man in solitary confinement and he will be miserable just like a man with no belief would be.
What you linked shows that social animals acting socially are happy. Nothing to do with belief which is what your assertion actually was. I haven't forgotten that. Your evidence does not support your assertion, so you are gonna have to try again. And before you even start no I don't except any of your disingenuous lies and make believe claims about the blog post you linked, it's very clear on what is causing the happiness and it's not belief. It was a good first try at actually backing up your bullshit, maybe with a little more practice you will get better.

Now because I'm honestly tired of this lesson you are not learning and because I'm tired of talking to someone so far below my level of thought I'm issuing you a challenge. You are in your next post (and I'll read this before anything else) to answer these questions, and answer them honestly (no lies or making up bullshit). Failure to answer even one question or to not answer it honestly will result in a termination of all communication with me on ANY subject in any thread (I'll still mock your stupidity though) and the forfeiture of any claim by you as to being in anyway "correct".

1.) How do you square the fact that you are a hedonist that was happier as a christian despite Christianity being completely against hedonism? These are conflicting ideologies.

2.) How do you explain that countries with the highest rates of atheism are consistently among the happiest and why countries with the most religiosity consistently rank among the lowest?

3.) Would you rather live in heavily non-religious countries like Sweden, Norway and France or in the heavily religious countries like Iran, Syria, or Saudi Arabia?

4.) Why is it that the US states like Mississippi, Utah, Arkansas, Louisiana, and Alabama in the top 10 with its strongly held religious beliefs, they were also the top 9 states of those on anti-depressants?

5.) Why is it that Utah residents (the second most religious state) in particular are twice as likely to be prescribed an anti-depressant than the overall American population?


6.) Why do you feel that you should be allowed to dismiss any evidence that does not agree with the conclusion you already have?

I doubt you will even get through one question, I seriously do.

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16-10-2014, 01:49 AM
RE: You can be the better/stronger person without atheism
(16-10-2014 12:49 AM)MattMVS7 Wrote:  This form of happiness would obviously be in the delusional belief of a God and a heaven.

Except you have not provided any evidence for this AT ALL, and I have shown a study that proves that not to be the case and that the harder you believe the more susceptible to depression you are.

You lose.

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16-10-2014, 02:36 AM (This post was last modified: 16-10-2014 03:56 AM by MattMVS7.)
RE: You can be the better/stronger person without atheism
(16-10-2014 01:45 AM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  So before I look at it let me ask you a question: why should I not dismiss your "evidence" without consideration as you did mine?I want to know why you feel you should be held to a lesser standard of responsibility and integrity then the rest of us?

This would be because of my own personal experience in the past as being a christian because it was my christian belief that allowed me to feel hope, comfort, and be more happy/less depressed in life. Me looking forward to going to heaven encouraged me to find more worth and purpose in this life in striving for that reward of an afterlife of eternal joy of no suffering. Since I am a hedonist, an eternal life of pleasure is the ultimate reward that not only made me feel more happy and motivated in life, but also encouraged me to strive more in doing more great things in life and such knowing that I would obtain that reward in the end.

(16-10-2014 01:45 AM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  Human beings are socially evolved animals, the fact that social animals derive happiness from social interaction is not surprising at all, nor is it soemthing religious belief can take credit for.

That article showed that religious belief encouraged more social interaction. Therefore, this increased social interaction would result in greater happiness in life than what some atheists can achieve through their atheism.

(16-10-2014 01:45 AM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  1.) How do you square the fact that you are a hedonist that was happier as a christian despite Christianity being completely against hedonism? These are conflicting ideologies.

I was a christian just in the sense that I believed in a God and a heaven. I only believed that doing truly awful things in life would be the only thing that could send me to hell. But I did not do any horrible things through my hedonism. As a matter of fact, I not only value my own feelings of pleasure, but those of others. Some would say that living your life to seek pleasure only causes others suffering and problems. But this is not always the case. For me, I was able to live my life seeking pleasure while also helping others and not causing them suffering or problems.

(16-10-2014 01:45 AM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  2.) How do you explain that countries with the highest rates of atheism are consistently among the happiest and why countries with the most religiosity consistently rank among the lowest?

It would have to do something with your lifestyle aspects/attitude that determines whether you are at risk for depression through having a religious belief. The reason why many religious people have depression due to their religious beliefs would be because they share these common lifestyle aspects and/or attitudes. But not me. My lifestyle and attitude were perfect for my christian belief which is the reason why I was never depressed, never had any problems, or caused others problems through my religious belief. But it might not be from lifestyle aspects and attitude alone. It could also be the fact that one believes if they sin, they will go to hell. But my belief was different in that only truly awful things would send me to hell because I believed that God was a loving and caring God to a certain degree. Aside from the belief in sin sending people to hell, there can be other negative beliefs associated with religious belief that might of caused these religious people to feel depressed. But I also had none of these negative beliefs which is another reason for me not having any problems, giving others problems, and not feeling depressed from my religious belief. My religious belief was virtually purely positive. So I and other people like me would truly have the greater benefit with a religious belief.

(16-10-2014 01:45 AM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  3.) Would you rather live in heavily non-religious countries like Sweden, Norway and France or in the heavily religious countries like Iran, Syria, or Saudi Arabia?

I'm not sure it would make a difference because the result could be the same in that I would still become an atheist (although it may be highly unlikely). But if I would never become an atheist living in heavily religious countries, then I would of chosen to live in these religious countries.

(16-10-2014 01:45 AM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  4.) Why is it that the US states like Mississippi, Utah, Arkansas, Louisiana, and Alabama in the top 10 with its strongly held religious beliefs, they were also the top 9 states of those on anti-depressants?

Again, because they share common lifestyle aspects/attitudes, and negative beliefs associated with their religious beliefs that lead them into feeling depressed and them needing antidepressants as a result.

(16-10-2014 01:45 AM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  5.) Why is it that Utah residents (the second most religious state) in particular are twice as likely to be prescribed an anti-depressant than the overall American population?[/url]

My reason stated right above applies here.

(16-10-2014 01:45 AM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  6.) Why do you feel that you should be allowed to dismiss any evidence that does not agree with the conclusion you already have?

I doubt you will even get through one question, I seriously do.

I will say what I just said above in this post which would be from my own personal experience of being a christian in the past, because common sense tells me so, because scientific studies can be flawed and, for this very reason, I am a person who is willing to challenge them and see if there is any other evidence and such that supports my point of view.

(16-10-2014 01:49 AM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  
(16-10-2014 12:49 AM)MattMVS7 Wrote:  This form of happiness would obviously be in the delusional belief of a God and a heaven.

Except you have not provided any evidence for this AT ALL, and I have shown a study that proves that not to be the case and that the harder you believe the more susceptible to depression you are.

You lose.

I was more happy and such through looking forward to going to heaven and knowing that there was a God. I was never depressed and such as a result of my religious belief. So this would be evidence right here from my own personal experience. Therefore, there are many others like me and if you wish to seek this evidence out for yourself as well, then you will go out into the world and meet some religious people and ask them if them having hope in an afterlife and knowing that there is a God made them more happy in life and if they had little to no depression as a result of their religious belief. That scientific study you presented earlier does not say that ALL religious people are depressed from their religious belief and/or are less happy than atheists. Again, that scientific study might of been flawed anyway.
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16-10-2014, 05:56 AM
RE: You can be the better/stronger person without atheism
(16-10-2014 02:36 AM)MattMVS7 Wrote:  This would be because of my own personal experience in the past as being a christian because it was my christian belief that allowed me to feel hope, comfort, and be more happy/less depressed in life. Me looking forward to going to heaven encouraged me to find more worth and purpose in this life in striving for that reward of an afterlife of eternal joy of no suffering. Since I am a hedonist, an eternal life of pleasure is the ultimate reward that not only made me feel more happy and motivated in life, but also encouraged me to strive more in doing more great things in life and such knowing that I would obtain that reward in the end.

Here is the problem though: I'm dismissing this out of hand as a factual reply for several reasons.
1.) I don't believe you are telling the truth. You are a documented lier, and please note I'm not accusing you of lying. I've documented that you have lied multiple times in the past, so any time you make an argument from your personal experience I'm going to dismiss it because you lie too often to be taken at face value. This feeds into...
2.) You are delusional and celebrate delusional living. Even if you are not knowingly lying all the time it's next to impossible for anyone else, myself included, to tell if what you are saying is accurate or a part of your delusions. This whole "I was happier as a Christan then I am as an Atheist" could be a lie, a delusion, or both. So again stories about yourself are gonna be dismissed as not factual.
3.) Lastly "personal experience" and your "feelings" do NOT trump actual evidence and data. They just don't kid. Personal anecdotes are not evidence nor do they trump evidence, lots of people out there testify to personal experiences that did not happen, did not happen the way they remember or claim, or just flat out are fraudulent claims. People claim to have personal experiences with mutually exclusive entities Every. Single. Day.

Dismissed as an answer.



(16-10-2014 02:36 AM)MattMVS7 Wrote:  That article showed that religious belief encouraged more social interaction. Therefore, this increased social interaction would result in greater happiness in life than what some atheists can achieve through their atheism.
That would be a valuable point if it was not for the fact that you can get equal social interaction outside of church within a secular frame work, that the evidence shows that non-believing people with adequate social frame works are actually just as, if not more, happy.
Basically the point is only a valid mark in beliefs favor if belief has a monopoly on social interaction which it does not. So you don't have a point. Oh, also your argument is that belief makes you happier in and of it's self, not that belief makes you more likely to socialize and thus more happy, you ain't moving the goal posts now kid. I get the same happiness going to a pub and socializing with fellow Glasgow Celtic fans and I don't have the added baggage of a kiddie fiddler trying to talk me into blowing up an abortion clinic.

Socialization and support makes us happy not the belief, and you don't suddenly stop being social animals the second you become an Atheist. You just get it from other, better, sources. Argument Dismissed.


(16-10-2014 02:36 AM)MattMVS7 Wrote:  I was a christian just in the sense that I believed in a God and a heaven. I only believed that doing truly awful things in life would be the only thing that could send me to hell. But I did not do any horrible things through my hedonism. As a matter of fact, I not only value my own feelings of pleasure, but those of others. Some would say that living your life to seek pleasure only causes others suffering and problems. But this is not always the case. For me, I was able to live my life seeking pleasure while also helping others and not causing them suffering or problems.

That in no way answered the question I actually asked. I didn't ask for your life story, I asked how were you able to be 2 conflicting things at once. It's like being a Libertarian Slave StateShocking So you were able to be a Christan (opposed to hedonism) and a Hedonist by....not actually being a Christian, or believing any of the bible outside of the bits you wanted to. So you were a Hedonist that accepted Christianity because it gave you the nicest sounding delusion? You believe in God and Heaven but not Christ? Kind important to Christianity that Christ guy.

So far you are 0/1.

Oh if you value other peoples pleasure you should leave, cause as your rep shows, you don't bring anyone here pleasure. But I bet you will make an exception to that little belief of yours for us. Right?Hobo Drinking Beverage

(16-10-2014 02:36 AM)MattMVS7 Wrote:  It would have to do something with your lifestyle aspects/attitude that determines whether you are at risk for depression through having a religious belief. The reason why many religious people have depression due to their religious beliefs would be because they share these common lifestyle aspects and/or attitudes. But not me. My lifestyle and attitude were perfect for my christian belief which is the reason why I was never depressed, never had any problems, or caused others problems through my religious belief. But it might not be from lifestyle aspects and attitude alone. It could also be the fact that one believes if they sin, they will go to hell. But my belief was different in that only truly awful things would send me to hell because I believed that God was a loving and caring God to a certain degree. Aside from the belief in sin sending people to hell, there can be other negative beliefs associated with religious belief that might of caused these religious people to feel depressed. But I also had none of these negative beliefs which is another reason for me not having any problems, giving others problems, and not feeling depressed from my religious belief. My religious belief was virtually purely positive. So I and other people like me would truly have the greater benefit with a religious belief.
Nothing in what you just wrote addresses, in any way at all, the question I asked. The parts about yourself are dismissed as being indistinguishable from fabrications or delusions. You provide no evidence for your other, off topic, claims. You neither answered the question, nor answered it honestly.

0/2

(16-10-2014 02:36 AM)MattMVS7 Wrote:  I'm not sure it would make a difference because the result could be the same in that I would still become an atheist (although it may be highly unlikely). But if I would never become an atheist living in heavily religious countries, then I would of chosen to live in these religious countries.

This one you actually answer honestly. Not intelligently, but honestly. Here is the thing though: secular countries are historically and in modern times better for atheists........and religious people. In fact even as a Muslim you would be happier and have a higher standard of living in one of the non-religious countries, let alone as a Christian (which is what you claim you were) living in Saudi Arabia. You should do some reading on that subject, see why non-religious countries have a higher standard of living then officially religious countries for the religious. That's not an attack by the way, it's a legitimately interesting topic.

You answered honestly.
1/3

(16-10-2014 02:36 AM)MattMVS7 Wrote:  Again, because they share common lifestyle aspects/attitudes, and negative beliefs associated with their religious beliefs that lead them into feeling depressed and them needing antidepressants as a result.
That answer is so vague as to be worthless, you provide no evidence to back up your assertions, you don't identify what these aspects are you just...say it with me...assert that they exist. Also you just shot your own foot by saying they are depressed because of the negative beliefs of their beliefs. Atheists don't have negative beliefs about the religious beliefs because we don't have religious beliefs. Seems like we have the leg up on the believers. Drinking Beverage

1/4

(16-10-2014 02:36 AM)MattMVS7 Wrote:  My reason stated right above applies here.
So no legitimate argument other then the one that damages your stance? Cool.

1/5

(16-10-2014 02:36 AM)MattMVS7 Wrote:  I will say what I just said above in this post which would be from my own personal experience of being a christian in the past, because common sense tells me so, because scientific studies can be flawed and, for this very reason, I am a person who is willing to challenge them and see if there is any other evidence and such that supports my point of view.
Your personal experiences are rejected as fabrications, delusions or both. Dismissed. Common sense is not a form of evidence, does not supersede factual evidence, and you have both a demonstrated poor grasp on common sense as well as a history of being told why common sense is not how we go about discovering the truth. Dismissed. Scientific studies can be flawed, in fact many of the ones showing a link between religiosity and happiness have been shown to be flawed in the past. However you have not demonstrated what was flawed in the study I showed or the following arguments I made. Until you do that study and those arguments stand as factually sound. Dismissed. You are not challenging evidence you are dismissing it without consideration of the facts. These are not the same thing, you give yourself too much credit. Dismissed.
Also you are not supposed to form a conclusion and exclusively searching for evidence that supports you conclusion at the expense of evidence that refutes it. It's called confirmation bias and leading the evidence, a thing that wen the Police do it it is a fucking crime. That's how backwards you are, seriously.

Your response was intellectually dishonest, uneducated, and arrogant. Dismissed.

1/6


(16-10-2014 02:36 AM)MattMVS7 Wrote:  I was more happy and such through looking forward to going to heaven and knowing that there was a God. I was never depressed and such as a result of my religious belief. So this would be evidence right here from my own personal experience.
Except that you can't demonstrate that and are a documented lier. Dismissed.


(16-10-2014 02:36 AM)MattMVS7 Wrote:  Again, that scientific study might of been flawed anyway.
But you have not demonstrated any flaws. It stands. Dismissed.


So... you got 1 out of 6. I'll admit that's more then I thought you would even if the only one you answered honestly you said you would rather live in Saudi Arabia then France which is a breath taking display of ignorance of the modern world. (Clearly you are not a wine drinker.)

But you tried, I'll give you credit for that, you took the time. You didn't make a single viable point, but you...you took the time. And that is worth..something? I guess?
I'll be nice though and give you one last chance. Don't even respond to the above points I made I'm honestly not gonna read your responses, they are predictable, always the same, and always fallacious. But I will do this:

You have exactly a single opportunity to show in your next post, with actual peer-reviewed evidence, that the a religious belief on it's own can help make people less likely to be depressed, more likely to be happy, and guards against mental illness. Just the belief, nothing else.

I already consider you done kid, you failed to answer all 6 questions in an intellectually honest way so you have already forfeited but I'll give you a chance to exit this lesson with some dignity.

Go.

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16-10-2014, 07:28 AM (This post was last modified: 16-10-2014 08:18 AM by CONVERSIONTUBE.)
RE: You can be the better/stronger person without atheism
It's funny the OP brought this topic up in conjunction with the most recent episode of The Atheist Experience.

They had a long call with a Theist arguing that believing in a false reality can be just as beneficial as truth in reality.

It really was an awesome call. Matt was ON HIS GAME with this caller. Don provided the final blow. What a sweet call.

I really think the OP should listen to this debate. It hits on a lot of what he talks about.

http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/53887621

The call starts at 22:55 but the argument about false beliefs and truths start around 39 minutes.

EDIT I just watched it again. I FUCKING LOVE THIS CALL
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16-10-2014, 10:52 AM (This post was last modified: 16-10-2014 11:01 AM by MattMVS7.)
RE: You can be the better/stronger person without atheism
(16-10-2014 05:56 AM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  You have exactly a single opportunity to show in your next post, with actual peer-reviewed evidence, that the a religious belief on it's own can help make people less likely to be depressed, more likely to be happy, and guards against mental illness. [u]Just the belief, nothing else.

Here is the evidence which is that there are many such religious people out in this world and if you wish to seek this evidence out for yourself as well, then you will go out into the world and meet some religious people and ask them if them having hope in an afterlife and knowing that there is a God made them more happy in life and if they had little to no depression as a result of believing in these things.

Also, I will quote something from that article I presented and ask why this is not evidence. Yes, the main reason for religious people being happy is due to social interaction. But why is this still not evidence anyway?:

" Religion may promote happiness for a number of reasons as studies show that religion gives people a sense of purpose and order and serves as a resource for coping with negative life experiences and existential fears (e.g., the fear of death)."

(16-10-2014 05:56 AM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  That in no way answered the question I [b]actually asked. I didn't ask for your life story, I asked how were you able to be 2 conflicting things at once. It's like being a Libertarian Slave StateShocking So you were able to be a Christan (opposed to hedonism) and a Hedonist by....not actually being a Christian, or believing any of the bible outside of the bits you wanted to. So you were a Hedonist that accepted Christianity because it gave you the nicest sounding delusion? You believe in God and Heaven but not Christ? Kind important to Christianity that Christ guy.


I actually really didn't read the bible or go to church despite my christian belief to somehow know that hedonism might be a sin and conflicts with Christianity or to even know that not reading the bible and/or going to church was a sin in of itself. So this is why there was no conflict and I was able to do things in terms of being a hedonist while having my christian faith.

(16-10-2014 05:56 AM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  Also you just shot your own foot by saying they are depressed because of the negative beliefs of their beliefs. Atheists don't have negative beliefs about the religious beliefs because we [i]don't have religious beliefs. Seems like we have the leg up on the believers.

You would be right in that many atheists do have the upperhand here. But there are people such as me who don't really have any negative beliefs at all associated with their religious beliefs and will have the upperhand instead.
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16-10-2014, 11:06 AM
RE: You can be the better/stronger person without atheism
(16-10-2014 12:49 AM)MattMVS7 Wrote:  Yes, that would be the main reason why religious people are more happy is because the belief just acts as a facilitator for social interactions. But there was another reason stated in that article which was:

" Religion may promote happiness for a number of reasons as studies show that religion gives people a sense of purpose and order and serves as a resource for coping with negative life experiences and existential fears (e.g., the fear of death)."

Context is everything:

the article Wrote:That being said, this question becomes more interesting if you ask the follow-up question of why religious people are happier. Religion may promote happiness for a number of reasons as studies show that religion gives people a sense of purpose and order and serves as a resource for coping with negative life experiences and existential fears (e.g., the fear of death). However, a number of studies really seem to suggest that the magic ingredient in religion that provides happiness is social connectedness.

The paragraph shows that your "another reason" was only a proposed answer to why religious people are happier, not a given answer. It goes on to say that studies tend to support that social connectedness is the real important factor.

I am not accountable to any God. I am accountable to myself - and not because I think I am God as some theists would try to assert - but because, no matter what actions I take, thoughts I think, or words I utter, I have to be able to live with myself.
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