You can be the better/stronger person without atheism
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16-10-2014, 08:32 PM (This post was last modified: 16-10-2014 08:45 PM by MattMVS7.)
RE: You can be the better/stronger person without atheism
(16-10-2014 03:59 PM)kim Wrote:  
(16-10-2014 01:51 PM)MattMVS7 Wrote:  I just need to know right here and now. What is it that makes people more prone to depression through having a religious belief and why is it that the stronger their belief, the more prone to depression they are?

Because... WHEN PEOPLE LET THEMSELVES BE CONTROLLED BY SOMETHING OUTSIDE THEIR SELF, THEY OFTEN FEEL OUT OF CONTROL. LOSS OF CONTROL CAN AND OFTEN DOES, LEAD TO DEPRESSION.

There.
Happy? Dodgy

This all depends on your lifestyle aspects/attitude, and negative beliefs associated with your religious beliefs that determines such negative perceptions regarding your religious belief. Like I said, I and others like me have no such negative perceptions, negative beliefs, and lifestyle aspects that would make my religious belief detrimental to me at all.

Now aside from that, there is no actual proof that feelings of pleasure (love, empowerment, motivation, etc.) are not the greatest things in life and that there are other things in life of greater value than pleasure that make your life worth living through atheism as opposed to being more happy through a religious belief as well as in terms of life in general. There is no proof that people who do find worth in life without their pleasure are delusional or not. As for my stubborn mindset, it is due to the fact that my own personal experience of pleasure says to me that my immense value towards pleasure and my ability to experience pleasure are the only things that make me "human." So for me to abandon that mindset would make me less of a human being. Another reason for my unchanging mindset is that I was never (nor will I ever be) the type of person who values and pursues science and intelligence over my pleasure. I am just here to talk about my issues and to debate about them anyway in order to see if I am truly wrong or if I am actually right. Also, one might claim me to be arrogant/foolish and not humble (perhaps selfish) for my unchanging mindset. To me, this is not the case. To me, this is what truly defines me as a human being. I could easily call these people foolish, ignorant, and arrogant for not changing their mindset in viewing pleasure as the greatest thing in life like me.

Now some people do change over time, but only providing that they think this change makes them more of a human being and for the greater benefit. But not me. The only thing that defines me as a human being now and has the greater benefit would be my unchanging mindset by living my life trying to fully recover my lost pleasure. As for life being dull in terms of just about being one thing (in my case, pleasure), that is not true. I would find great value, pleasure, and worth in living a happy life without anhedonia and depression. It is only the types of people who value other things in life as well as suffering and hardships and need some of these things in their lives who find that living a nice blissful life would be dull. But I have no value towards such things. Therefore, my life would never be dull if it was only about pleasure.

Also, a scientist or an intelligent person might say that living your life to seek pleasure is animalistic and inferior to pursuing intelligence and other things. But this is not the case because my personal experience of pleasure was so profound, meaningful, and god-like (metaphorically speaking because I received god-like feelings of pleasure from watching god-like fantasy which would be anime). Since my experience of pleasure was god-like and such and I have embraced such feelings of pleasure as a part of who I am, this is what makes me a superior human being and a superior god-like being (metaphorically speaking). All other aspects of me as a human being and in life are nothing in comparison. A superior god-like being just means that your humanity (pleasure) has been increased to a heightened level. It also means that your feelings of pleasure feel god-like.

As for the seeking of pleasure causing others suffering, this is not always the case. You can value the pleasure of others and help other people and not cause them suffering or problems while living your own life seeking pleasure as well.

Normal human beings take pleasure in normal average everyday things in life. So their feelings of pleasure are normal and make them normal human beings. But when your brain becomes rewired to experience god-like feelings of pleasure from things in the god-like world of fantasy that are more intense and beyond the average feelings of pleasure that people experience, then that is when you have been enlightened to a god. Also, feelings of pleasure that are obtained from normal average everyday things in life that are extremely profound and meaningful can be considered god-like as well in a way. Again, I am metaphorically speaking when saying god-like because I know there is no such thing as gods or any other such superstition.

Now telling me that, for example, intelligence has more value than pleasure and that I should value/seek intelligence over pleasure is no different than telling me that I should take certain supplements or eat certain foods and to instead have less value and such towards pleasure and to instead live my life taking supplements and eating certain foods. It's not necessary and not a way of life that should be intended for everyone (especially for people like me). Yes, intelligence can achieve great things in life, but so can pleasure. The difference here is that pleasure is the only thing that makes my life worth living and is the only greatest aspect of me as a human being and can achieve even more greater things in life than intelligence.
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16-10-2014, 08:51 PM
RE: You can be the better/stronger person without atheism
(16-10-2014 08:32 PM)MattMVS7 Wrote:  
(16-10-2014 03:59 PM)kim Wrote:  Because... WHEN PEOPLE LET THEMSELVES BE CONTROLLED BY SOMETHING OUTSIDE THEIR SELF, THEY OFTEN FEEL OUT OF CONTROL. LOSS OF CONTROL CAN AND OFTEN DOES, LEAD TO DEPRESSION.

There.
Happy? Dodgy

This all depends on your lifestyle aspects/attitude, and negative beliefs associated with your religious beliefs that determines such negative perceptions regarding your religious belief. Like I said, I and others like me have no such negative perceptions, negative beliefs, and lifestyle aspects that would make my religious belief detrimental to me at all.

Now aside from that, there is no actual proof that feelings of pleasure (love, empowerment, motivation, etc.) are not the greatest things in life and that there are other things in life of greater value than pleasure that make your life worth living through atheism as opposed to being more happy through a religious belief as well as in terms of life in general. There is no proof that people who do find worth in life without their pleasure are delusional or not. As for my stubborn mindset, it is due to the fact that my own personal experience of pleasure says to me that my immense value towards pleasure and my ability to experience pleasure are the only things that make me "human." So for me to abandon that mindset would make me less of a human being. Another reason for my unchanging mindset is that I was never (nor will I ever be) the type of person who values and pursues science and intelligence over my pleasure. I am just here to talk about my issues and to debate about them anyway in order to see if I am truly wrong or if I am actually right. Also, one might claim me to be arrogant/foolish and not humble (perhaps selfish) for my unchanging mindset. To me, this is not the case. To me, this is what truly defines me as a human being. I could easily call these people foolish, ignorant, and arrogant for not changing their mindset in viewing pleasure as the greatest thing in life like me.

Now some people do change over time, but only providing that they think this change makes them more of a human being and for the greater benefit. But not me. The only thing that defines me as a human being now and has the greater benefit would be my unchanging mindset by living my life trying to fully recover my lost pleasure. As for life being dull in terms of just about being one thing (in my case, pleasure), that is not true. I would find great value, pleasure, and worth in living a happy life without anhedonia and depression. It is only the types of people who value other things in life as well as suffering and hardships and need some of these things in their lives who find that living a nice blissful life would be dull. But I have no value towards such things. Therefore, my life would never be dull if it was only about pleasure.

Also, a scientist or an intelligent person might say that living your life to seek pleasure is animalistic and inferior to pursuing intelligence and other things. But this is not the case because my personal experience of pleasure was so profound, meaningful, and god-like (metaphorically speaking because I received god-like feelings of pleasure from watching god-like fantasy which would be anime). Since my experience of pleasure was god-like and such and I have embraced such feelings of pleasure as a part of who I am, this is what makes me a superior human being and a superior god-like being (metaphorically speaking). All other aspects of me as a human being and in life are nothing in comparison. A superior god-like being just means that your humanity (pleasure) has been increased to a heightened level. It also means that your feelings of pleasure feel god-like.

As for the seeking of pleasure causing others suffering, this is not always the case. You can value the pleasure of others and help other people and not cause them suffering or problems while living your own life seeking pleasure as well.

Normal human beings take pleasure in normal average everyday things in life. So their feelings of pleasure are normal and make them normal human beings. But when your brain becomes rewired to experience god-like feelings of pleasure from things in the god-like world of fantasy that are more intense and beyond the average feelings of pleasure that people experience, then that is when you have been enlightened to a god. Also, feelings of pleasure that are obtained from normal average everyday things in life that are extremely profound and meaningful can be considered god-like as well in a way. Again, I am metaphorically speaking when saying god-like because I know there is no such thing as gods or any other such superstition.

Now telling me that, for example, intelligence has more value than pleasure and that I should value/seek intelligence over pleasure is no different than telling me that I should take certain supplements or eat certain foods and to instead have less value and such towards pleasure and to instead live my life taking supplements and eating certain foods. It's not necessary and not a way of life that should be intended for everyone (especially for people like me). Yes, intelligence can achieve great things in life, but so can pleasure. The difference here is that pleasure is the only thing that makes my life worth living and is the only greatest aspect of me as a human being and can achieve even more greater things in life than intelligence.


Only "pleasure" makes you human.......?
Whut?

I can't seem to make it past that statement.
In fact, i cannot seem to want to wade through your extremely long posts at all.

When I want your opinion I'll read your entrails.
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16-10-2014, 09:06 PM (This post was last modified: 16-10-2014 09:14 PM by MattMVS7.)
RE: You can be the better/stronger person without atheism
(16-10-2014 08:51 PM)WitchSabrina Wrote:  
(16-10-2014 08:32 PM)MattMVS7 Wrote:  This all depends on your lifestyle aspects/attitude, and negative beliefs associated with your religious beliefs that determines such negative perceptions regarding your religious belief. Like I said, I and others like me have no such negative perceptions, negative beliefs, and lifestyle aspects that would make my religious belief detrimental to me at all.

Now aside from that, there is no actual proof that feelings of pleasure (love, empowerment, motivation, etc.) are not the greatest things in life and that there are other things in life of greater value than pleasure that make your life worth living through atheism as opposed to being more happy through a religious belief as well as in terms of life in general. There is no proof that people who do find worth in life without their pleasure are delusional or not. As for my stubborn mindset, it is due to the fact that my own personal experience of pleasure says to me that my immense value towards pleasure and my ability to experience pleasure are the only things that make me "human." So for me to abandon that mindset would make me less of a human being. Another reason for my unchanging mindset is that I was never (nor will I ever be) the type of person who values and pursues science and intelligence over my pleasure. I am just here to talk about my issues and to debate about them anyway in order to see if I am truly wrong or if I am actually right. Also, one might claim me to be arrogant/foolish and not humble (perhaps selfish) for my unchanging mindset. To me, this is not the case. To me, this is what truly defines me as a human being. I could easily call these people foolish, ignorant, and arrogant for not changing their mindset in viewing pleasure as the greatest thing in life like me.

Now some people do change over time, but only providing that they think this change makes them more of a human being and for the greater benefit. But not me. The only thing that defines me as a human being now and has the greater benefit would be my unchanging mindset by living my life trying to fully recover my lost pleasure. As for life being dull in terms of just about being one thing (in my case, pleasure), that is not true. I would find great value, pleasure, and worth in living a happy life without anhedonia and depression. It is only the types of people who value other things in life as well as suffering and hardships and need some of these things in their lives who find that living a nice blissful life would be dull. But I have no value towards such things. Therefore, my life would never be dull if it was only about pleasure.

Also, a scientist or an intelligent person might say that living your life to seek pleasure is animalistic and inferior to pursuing intelligence and other things. But this is not the case because my personal experience of pleasure was so profound, meaningful, and god-like (metaphorically speaking because I received god-like feelings of pleasure from watching god-like fantasy which would be anime). Since my experience of pleasure was god-like and such and I have embraced such feelings of pleasure as a part of who I am, this is what makes me a superior human being and a superior god-like being (metaphorically speaking). All other aspects of me as a human being and in life are nothing in comparison. A superior god-like being just means that your humanity (pleasure) has been increased to a heightened level. It also means that your feelings of pleasure feel god-like.

As for the seeking of pleasure causing others suffering, this is not always the case. You can value the pleasure of others and help other people and not cause them suffering or problems while living your own life seeking pleasure as well.

Normal human beings take pleasure in normal average everyday things in life. So their feelings of pleasure are normal and make them normal human beings. But when your brain becomes rewired to experience god-like feelings of pleasure from things in the god-like world of fantasy that are more intense and beyond the average feelings of pleasure that people experience, then that is when you have been enlightened to a god. Also, feelings of pleasure that are obtained from normal average everyday things in life that are extremely profound and meaningful can be considered god-like as well in a way. Again, I am metaphorically speaking when saying god-like because I know there is no such thing as gods or any other such superstition.

Now telling me that, for example, intelligence has more value than pleasure and that I should value/seek intelligence over pleasure is no different than telling me that I should take certain supplements or eat certain foods and to instead have less value and such towards pleasure and to instead live my life taking supplements and eating certain foods. It's not necessary and not a way of life that should be intended for everyone (especially for people like me). Yes, intelligence can achieve great things in life, but so can pleasure. The difference here is that pleasure is the only thing that makes my life worth living and is the only greatest aspect of me as a human being and can achieve even more greater things in life than intelligence.


Only "pleasure" makes you human.......?
Whut?

I can't seem to make it past that statement.
In fact, i cannot seem to want to wade through your extremely long posts at all.
Hedonism itself says this because it states that pleasure is the only good thing in life and that nothing else about you as a person or anything else in life is anything good at all. Therefore, without your pleasure or if you had less pleasure, that would make you an inferior human being no matter what (and that goes for atheists as well who might be less happy through their atheism as opposed to how much more happy they would be with a religious belief). Your lives would have no worth without any pleasure and you would no longer even be considered a human being without any pleasure at all.
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16-10-2014, 09:12 PM
RE: You can be the better/stronger person without atheism
What about those willing to sacrifice their happiness for the happiness of others?

“You see… sometimes life gives you lemons. And when that happens… you need to find some spell that makes lemons explode, because lemons are terrible. I only ate them once and I can say with certainty they are the worst fruit. If life gave me lemons, I would view it as nothing short of a declaration of war."
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16-10-2014, 09:16 PM (This post was last modified: 16-10-2014 09:19 PM by MattMVS7.)
RE: You can be the better/stronger person without atheism
(16-10-2014 09:12 PM)DemonicLemon Wrote:  What about those willing to sacrifice their happiness for the happiness of others?
You would still no longer even be considered a human being and your life would still be completely worthless without your own pleasure.
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16-10-2014, 09:23 PM
RE: You can be the better/stronger person without atheism
(16-10-2014 09:16 PM)MattMVS7 Wrote:  
(16-10-2014 09:12 PM)DemonicLemon Wrote:  What about those willing to sacrifice their happiness for the happiness of others?
You would still no longer even be considered a human being and your life would still be completely worthless without your own pleasure.

So in other words, you recommend against selflessness?

“You see… sometimes life gives you lemons. And when that happens… you need to find some spell that makes lemons explode, because lemons are terrible. I only ate them once and I can say with certainty they are the worst fruit. If life gave me lemons, I would view it as nothing short of a declaration of war."
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16-10-2014, 09:45 PM (This post was last modified: 16-10-2014 11:49 PM by MattMVS7.)
RE: You can be the better/stronger person without atheism
(16-10-2014 09:23 PM)DemonicLemon Wrote:  
(16-10-2014 09:16 PM)MattMVS7 Wrote:  You would still no longer even be considered a human being and your life would still be completely worthless without your own pleasure.

So in other words, you recommend against selflessness?

Let me put it this way for you:

Your own happiness matters just as much as everyone else’s (even your own family’s happiness). In other words, their happiness is neither of lesser or even greater value than yours. So if I had the choice to either be a happy retard and give my family the burden of taking care of me in which they would just feel a little loss of pleasure due to their hard lives of taking care of me, or to be an intelligent genius with no ability to experience pleasure whatsoever to make their lives happy, one might think that making the sacrifice in becoming the intelligent genius would be the right thing to do. But if I were to become the intelligent genius, that would say right there that my family’s happiness is more important than mine. But if I were to become the happy retard, that would say right there that my own happiness has more value than theirs. Therefore, to determine which of these two sacrifices is the right one now all comes down to which of these two sacrifices would cause the greatest loss of pleasure. My family might be happy with a little loss of pleasure in having to take care of me if I was the happy retard, but I would have no pleasure whatsoever if I was the intelligent genius. So the right sacrifice for me to make would for me to become the happy retard. What would be even worse in me making the sacrifice in becoming the intelligent genius is that, since pleasure is the only greatest thing about you as a person in life and that to lose it would be the worst suffering, your family should not feel happy for you at all in making that sacrifice since you would now be nothing more than a biological robot regardless of how much value they have towards you and that you would be going through the worst suffering. Even if my family made the sacrifice in becoming happy retards if they had depression or anhedonia, I would feel that their decision was well-justified and was the right thing to do despite the fact that I would now have to take care of them. Also, to somehow value the happiness of others above yours and sacrifice all your happiness just so they can gain a little bit or some happiness holds no logic since, again, your happiness has just as much value as others. The same rule would apply if you valued your happiness above others.

The point I’m trying to make here is that you should have full value towards your own pleasure as well as the pleasure of others (which would give you the full title of a “human being” for having value towards both your pleasure and those of others). You should not just sacrifice yourself and help others at the expense of your own pleasure without any consideration first. Doing so would make you less of a human being since you have abandoned your own pleasure in the process (only providing that the sacrifice was not for the best benefit such as the example I gave above). Yes, I do have value towards my family’s and the happiness of others. But I also have value towards my own happiness as well which is why I am so fixated on getting it back by obsessively talking about it here on this forum. So that is why I wish to no longer have this emotional numbness/depression and to be back to the way I was before with a christian belief that gave my life happiness before.
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16-10-2014, 11:34 PM
RE: You can be the better/stronger person without atheism
You heard it hear first folks, self sacrificing people who put others first are not even human beings and live worthless lives.

lol what a fucking idiot.

When valour preys on reason, it eats the sword it fights with.
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16-10-2014, 11:48 PM (This post was last modified: 16-10-2014 11:57 PM by MattMVS7.)
RE: You can be the better/stronger person without atheism
(16-10-2014 11:34 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  You heard it hear first folks, self sacrificing people who put others first are not even human beings and live worthless lives.

lol what a fucking idiot.

I'm not sure if you read my previous post I just made, but I will state a simple message from that post which would be that to somehow value the happiness of others above yours and sacrifice all your happiness just so they can gain a little bit or some happiness holds no logic since, again, your happiness has just as much value as others. The same rule would apply if you valued your happiness above others. Also, it's not just me who says that your life would be worthless and that you would be an inferior human being if you did not have pleasure. Hedonism also says the same things.
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17-10-2014, 12:27 AM
RE: You can be the better/stronger person without atheism
(16-10-2014 08:51 PM)WitchSabrina Wrote:  Only "pleasure" makes you human.......?
Whut?

I can't seem to make it past that statement.
In fact, i cannot seem to want to wade through your extremely long posts at all.

Don't bother. This is a self-involved troll sock puppet who should have been banned long ago and would have been by a competent administrator. Drinking Beverage

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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