You can be the better/stronger person without atheism
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12-10-2014, 09:10 PM
RE: You can be the better/stronger person without atheism
Your post was monotonous. I skimmed through many of the paragraphs. It's not bedtime yet, I may go back when I'm ready to hit the sack. If you want to be taken seriously, make a shorter post. If you want me to show you the courtesy of quoting areas of contention, you are going to have to follow forum etiquette of not posting text longer than the fucking Great Wall of China.

The paragraphs I read reflect black and white thinking. Way too much "if this, then that." Even if depression blinds you to color, there is still gray.

"If there's a single thing that life teaches us, it's that wishing doesn't make it so." - Lev Grossman
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12-10-2014, 10:39 PM
RE: You can be the better/stronger person without atheism
(12-10-2014 09:10 PM)Nurse Wrote:  Your post was monotonous. I skimmed through many of the paragraphs. It's not bedtime yet, I may go back when I'm ready to hit the sack. If you want to be taken seriously, make a shorter post. If you want me to show you the courtesy of quoting areas of contention, you are going to have to follow forum etiquette of not posting text longer than the fucking Great Wall of China.

The paragraphs I read reflect black and white thinking. Way too much "if this, then that." Even if depression blinds you to color, there is still gray.
First off, I am very serious (hence the reason why I put effort and typed all of this out). Therefore, people should return the favor by putting effort and taking my post seriously by reading all of it and debating against all of it.

But for now, here is something for you to debate against:

If you are going to say something such as that it doesn't matter whether religious belief is more beneficial to you or not and that you would be dishonest to yourself for not facing and not knowing the truth, this is something true. But what's the point in knowing the truth if it is only going to make you less happy with less benefits in life as opposed to having a religious belief? Especially if you can do more great things in life and help even more people through having a religious belief? But if you are going to say something to what I just said here in my paragraph such as that:

"Ah, so if we plugged a mainline into your vein and kept you deluded that everything was freakin awesome, while in reality you were laying in a bed with a slobber bucket tied around your neck, you'd be none the worse for it. Got it! Disagree, but got it!"

What I would have to say about that is that would be correct. But if you were to instead replace the situation you described of you having a slobber bucket tied around your neck in a bed with a dangerous life-threatening situation, then it would matter (although it wouldn't to me because of my immense value towards living a happy deluded fantasy life). However, being in a dangerous situation that is being denied with a delusion is not equivalent to having a deluded belief in religion since there is no dangerous situation that is being denied by this delusion that you need to face (at least for me anyway). But for some people, it is. For example, if someone were to be in a dangerous situation and believe that God will protect him/her, then it would be likely he/she would then die. But such a situation in which something dangerous was being denied by a delusion has never happened to me despite my christian belief in the past as I am a person who takes precautions for myself and wouldn't solely rely on God to protect me. So this is why people such as me are much better off with a religious belief.
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12-10-2014, 11:41 PM
RE: You can be the better/stronger person without atheism
Quote:Therefore, people should return the favor by putting effort and taking my post seriously by reading all of it and debating against all of it.

How can I take you seriously when you assume what my argument will be and want me to argue the points you've laid out for me?

Quote:But what's the point in knowing the truth if it is only going to make you less happy with less benefits in life as opposed to having a religious belief?

Who said it makes me less happy and has less benefits? You?
Religion makes me unhappy, as do people who think they know what I feel.

Quote:But if you are going to say something to what I just said here in my paragraph such as that:

"Ah, so if we plugged a mainline into your vein and kept you deluded that everything was freakin awesome, while in reality you were laying in a bed with a slobber bucket tied around your neck, you'd be none the worse for it. Got it! Disagree, but got it!"

I wasn't going to say that. Again, you should try stating your own argument and not try to script an argument for me.
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13-10-2014, 12:06 AM
RE: You can be the better/stronger person without atheism
Hello! Smile

(12-10-2014 08:53 PM)MattMVS7 Wrote:  Well then, good for you! Your atheism is more beneficial to you than if you had a religious belief. But I am here for the atheists on the forum who would benefit more and be more happy in life having a religious belief instead.

Um, what exactly does/do you mean by this?

I had religious belief. Now I don't.

Was I happy formerly? Yes.

Am I happy now? Yes.

Why did I change from the former to the latter? Simply because I could no longer

A) Make sense of the religious ideas (I found them to be non-sense)

B) Even having the religion... wasn't the determining factor of my happiness.

Now, with out the religion... I'm still living life as normal.

How do you propose to help an atheist benefit/have a happy life regaining a religion?

I'm quite lost on this point.

Much cheers to all.
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13-10-2014, 12:14 AM
RE: You can be the better/stronger person without atheism
Damn, I thought I was doing OK as an atheist. I definitely don't feel so smothered and mentally chained like when, like when I was a Christian. SDF!

"If you want a happy ending, that depends, of course, on where you stop your story." Orson Welles
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13-10-2014, 12:31 AM
RE: You can be the better/stronger person without atheism
(13-10-2014 12:14 AM)Dee Wrote:  Damn, I thought I was doing OK as an atheist. I definitely don't feel so smothered and mentally chained like when, like when I was a Christian. SDF!

The beautiful thing about breaking away from religion (and other mind-traps) is that you're free to be yourself. Anything can be questioned, stupid beliefs can be discarded, you can be totally honest with yourself. OP has nothing that he can offer which I would trade these for.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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13-10-2014, 12:33 AM
RE: You can be the better/stronger person without atheism
(12-10-2014 10:39 PM)MattMVS7 Wrote:  
(12-10-2014 09:10 PM)Nurse Wrote:  Your post was monotonous. I skimmed through many of the paragraphs. It's not bedtime yet, I may go back when I'm ready to hit the sack. If you want to be taken seriously, make a shorter post. If you want me to show you the courtesy of quoting areas of contention, you are going to have to follow forum etiquette of not posting text longer than the fucking Great Wall of China.

The paragraphs I read reflect black and white thinking. Way too much "if this, then that." Even if depression blinds you to color, there is still gray.
First off, I am very serious (hence the reason why I put effort and typed all of this out). Therefore, people should return the favor by putting effort and taking my post seriously by reading all of it and debating against all of it.

And you also sound like Troll #541, so forgive us if we're none too eager to take your number...


(12-10-2014 10:39 PM)MattMVS7 Wrote:  But for now, here is something for you to debate against:

Joy... Dodgy


(12-10-2014 10:39 PM)MattMVS7 Wrote:  If you are going to say something such as that it doesn't matter whether religious belief is more beneficial to you or not and that you would be dishonest to yourself for not facing and not knowing the truth, this is something true.

Right, it's better to know an uncomfortable truth than believe in a comforting lie.


(12-10-2014 10:39 PM)MattMVS7 Wrote:  But what's the point in knowing the truth if it is only going to make you less happy with less benefits in life as opposed to having a religious belief?

Because it's the truth, and the state of the truth doesn't change on whether we like it or not. It doesn't matter if adding a few more zeros to the end of your paycheck makes you happier, because you can't magic that money into your bank account...


(12-10-2014 10:39 PM)MattMVS7 Wrote:  Especially if you can do more great things in life and help even more people through having a religious belief?

Name one (just one) good thing a religious believer can do that a secularist, atheist, or humanist can't. No, really, we'll wait... Drinking Beverage


(12-10-2014 10:39 PM)MattMVS7 Wrote:  But if you are going to say something to what I just said here in my paragraph such as that:

"Ah, so if we plugged a mainline into your vein and kept you deluded that everything was freakin awesome, while in reality you were laying in a bed with a slobber bucket tied around your neck, you'd be none the worse for it. Got it! Disagree, but got it!"

What I would have to say about that is that would be correct. But if you were to instead replace the situation you described of you having a slobber bucket tied around your neck in a bed with a dangerous life-threatening situation, then it would matter (although it wouldn't to me because of my immense value towards living a happy deluded fantasy life).

Hey, how you doing Mozart Link? Now fuck off...


(12-10-2014 10:39 PM)MattMVS7 Wrote:  However, being in a dangerous situation that is being denied with a delusion is not equivalent to having a deluded belief in religion since there is no dangerous situation that is being denied by this delusion that you need to face (at least for me anyway). But for some people, it is. For example, if someone were to be in a dangerous situation and believe that God will protect him/her, then it would be likely he/she would then die. But such a situation in which something dangerous was being denied by a delusion has never happened to me despite my christian belief in the past as I am a person who takes precautions for myself and wouldn't solely rely on God to protect me. So this is why people such as me are much better off with a religious belief.

An argument can be made, vis-a-vis human suffering, that sometimes it is better to not break someone's delusion if it is keeping them from greater suffering (a funeral is not the place to argue God's non-existence); but this needs to be taken on a case by case basis. Systemic institutionalized delusion (religion) has far more negatives going for it then positives. Religion is simply our first, and thus poorest, attempt at explaining the world (science), government, and healthcare; and because it's our first, it is our worst. The delusion is there, but it should be used as little as possible. Not everyone needs a wheelchair, so it would be detrimental if everyone used one anyways.

Imagine what society would be like if we all shared another crutch...

[Image: walle-hoverchair08.jpg]

And how much better it would be when they all stopped using that same crutch...

It would be better for everyone if we all did not rely on delusion to comfort us, if we could all learn to deal with and cope with grief and hardship by facing it head on and with the truth, rather than running away from it with delusion. Lying to yourself that your loved ones are 'in a better place' when they die is not dealing with grief, it's burying it under comforting lies so that you don't have to deal with the fact that they are gone and you're never going to see them again. Thinking that you'll go to Heaven when you die in not coming to terms with your own death, it's running away from the fact that you are a temporary collection of molecules who will one day cease to be 'you', and that you are ultimately insignificant by order of magnitude to the greater extent of the universe. Believing that an undead Jewish carpenter can absolve you of your 'sins' isn't dealing with your guilt or conscience, it's asking your imagination for forgiveness instead of dealing directly with the consequences of your actions and actually having to make reparations; because actually doing something to make the situation right takes actual work and is much harder to do, and doesn't guarantee that those wronged will forgive you for your actions (as is their prerogative).

But you know this already.

The problem is, accepting the truth is too hard for you. So you tap-out like a pussy. Now fuck off troll... Drinking Beverage

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13-10-2014, 12:39 AM
RE: You can be the better/stronger person without atheism
(12-10-2014 10:39 PM)MattMVS7 Wrote:  First off, I am very serious (hence the reason why I put effort and typed all of this out). Therefore, people should return the favor by putting effort and taking my post seriously by reading all of it and debating against all of it.
Nah RetardLink, noone gives a shit about your insignificant self and your repetitive, nonsensical bullshit.
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13-10-2014, 12:59 AM (This post was last modified: 13-10-2014 02:13 AM by MattMVS7.)
RE: You can be the better/stronger person without atheism
(13-10-2014 12:33 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  An argument can be made, vis-a-vis human suffering, that sometimes it is better to not break someone's delusion if it is keeping them from greater suffering (a funeral is not the place to argue God's non-existence); but this needs to be taken on a case by case basis. Systemic institutionalized delusion (religion) has far more negatives going for it then positives. Religion is simply our first, and thus poorest, attempt at explaining the world (science), government, and healthcare; and because it's our first, it is our worst. The delusion is there, but it should be used as little as possible. Not everyone needs a wheelchair, so it would be detrimental if everyone used one anyways.

Imagine what society would be like if we all shared another crutch...

[Image: walle-hoverchair08.jpg]

And how much better it would be when they all stopped using that same crutch...

It would be better for everyone if we all did not rely on delusion to comfort us, if we could all learn to deal with and cope with grief and hardship by facing it head on and with the truth, rather than running away from it with delusion. Lying to yourself that your loved ones are 'in a better place' when they die is not dealing with grief, it's burying it under comforting lies so that you don't have to deal with the fact that they are gone and you're never going to see them again. Thinking that you'll go to Heaven when you die in not coming to terms with your own death, it's running away from the fact that you are a temporary collection of molecules who will one day cease to be 'you', and that you are ultimately insignificant by order of magnitude to the greater extent of the universe. Believing that an undead Jewish carpenter can absolve you of your 'sins' isn't dealing with your guilt or conscience, it's asking your imagination for forgiveness instead of dealing directly with the consequences of your actions and actually having to make reparations; because actually doing something to make the situation right takes actual work and is much harder to do, and doesn't guarantee that those wronged will forgive you for your actions (as is their prerogative).

But you know this already.

The problem is, accepting the truth is too hard for you. So you tap-out like a pussy. Now fuck off troll... Drinking Beverage
As for religion being a poor explanation of the world and such, this concern here would only be for those who are scientists and/or people who wish to discover the truth and such. Not someone like me. So people like me would benefit more from a religious belief.

Now what exactly is wrong with not dealing with your problems and using delusion as an escape? Is not facing your problems/reality going to kill you or anything like that? I don't think so! As for making amends to the consequences of your actions, I am not the type of person to harm myself and/or criticize others. Even if such things were to happen, they would be very few. So religious belief would truly be the much greater benefit for me and for others like me on this forum or out in the world.
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13-10-2014, 02:06 AM
RE: You can be the better/stronger person without atheism
(13-10-2014 12:59 AM)MattMVS7 Wrote:  ...
Now what exactly is wrong with not dealing with your problems and using delusion as an escape? Is not facing your problems/reality going to kill you or anything like that? I don't think so!
...

I do.

Two young ladies that I knew... both from the Philippines, so both deeply indoctrinated by their catholic culture.

Both had close relatives with cancer (mother and step-mother).

Both prayed.

But one had money and paid for treatment.

The treatment was available as a direct result of the efforts of a succession of generations of people who had not accepted the delusion and had researched reality.

Guess which one survived?

Dodgy

Your good health and the good health of your future generations has been enhanced by those who did not accept the delusion.

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