You can be the better/stronger person without atheism
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13-10-2014, 02:12 AM
RE: You can be the better/stronger person without atheism
(13-10-2014 02:06 AM)DLJ Wrote:  
(13-10-2014 12:59 AM)MattMVS7 Wrote:  ...
Now what exactly is wrong with not dealing with your problems and using delusion as an escape? Is not facing your problems/reality going to kill you or anything like that? I don't think so!
...

I do.

Two young ladies that I knew... both from the Philippines, so both deeply indoctrinated by their catholic culture.

Both had close relatives with cancer (mother and step-mother).

Both prayed.

But one had money and paid for treatment.

The treatment was available as a direct result of the efforts of a succession of generations of people who had not accepted the delusion and had researched reality.

Guess which one survived?

Dodgy

Your good health and the good health of your future generations has been enhanced by those who did not accept the delusion.
Although I see what you mean, I am the type of person who (despite my christian belief in the past) does not solely rely on prayers and God. I am a type of person who does not use my religious belief as a means of thinking God will protect me or others. So my point still stands about religion having the much greater benefit for me as well as other people like me on this forum or out in the world.
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13-10-2014, 02:29 AM
RE: You can be the better/stronger person without atheism
(13-10-2014 12:59 AM)MattMVS7 Wrote:  
(13-10-2014 12:33 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  An argument can be made, vis-a-vis human suffering, that sometimes it is better to not break someone's delusion if it is keeping them from greater suffering (a funeral is not the place to argue God's non-existence); but this needs to be taken on a case by case basis. Systemic institutionalized delusion (religion) has far more negatives going for it then positives. Religion is simply our first, and thus poorest, attempt at explaining the world (science), government, and healthcare; and because it's our first, it is our worst. The delusion is there, but it should be used as little as possible. Not everyone needs a wheelchair, so it would be detrimental if everyone used one anyways.

Imagine what society would be like if we all shared another crutch...

[Image: walle-hoverchair08.jpg]

And how much better it would be when they all stopped using that same crutch...

It would be better for everyone if we all did not rely on delusion to comfort us, if we could all learn to deal with and cope with grief and hardship by facing it head on and with the truth, rather than running away from it with delusion. Lying to yourself that your loved ones are 'in a better place' when they die is not dealing with grief, it's burying it under comforting lies so that you don't have to deal with the fact that they are gone and you're never going to see them again. Thinking that you'll go to Heaven when you die in not coming to terms with your own death, it's running away from the fact that you are a temporary collection of molecules who will one day cease to be 'you', and that you are ultimately insignificant by order of magnitude to the greater extent of the universe. Believing that an undead Jewish carpenter can absolve you of your 'sins' isn't dealing with your guilt or conscience, it's asking your imagination for forgiveness instead of dealing directly with the consequences of your actions and actually having to make reparations; because actually doing something to make the situation right takes actual work and is much harder to do, and doesn't guarantee that those wronged will forgive you for your actions (as is their prerogative).

But you know this already.

The problem is, accepting the truth is too hard for you. So you tap-out like a pussy. Now fuck off troll... Drinking Beverage
As for religion being a poor explanation of the world and such, this concern here would only be for those who are scientists and/or people who wish to discover the truth and such. Not someone like me. So people like me would benefit more from a religious belief.

Now what exactly is wrong with not dealing with your problems and using delusion as an escape? Is not facing your problems/reality going to kill you or anything like that? I don't think so! As for making amends to the consequences of your actions, I am not the type of person to harm myself and/or criticize others. Even if such things were to happen, they would be very few. So religious belief would truly be the much greater benefit for me and for others like me on this forum or out in the world.

Listen up cockbite. You can believe whatever stupid, crazy, petty, unfounded bullshit you want. The rest of us are not obliged to hand you a gold sticker for it.

Fucking dumbass...

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13-10-2014, 02:32 AM
RE: You can be the better/stronger person without atheism
(13-10-2014 02:29 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(13-10-2014 12:59 AM)MattMVS7 Wrote:  As for religion being a poor explanation of the world and such, this concern here would only be for those who are scientists and/or people who wish to discover the truth and such. Not someone like me. So people like me would benefit more from a religious belief.

Now what exactly is wrong with not dealing with your problems and using delusion as an escape? Is not facing your problems/reality going to kill you or anything like that? I don't think so! As for making amends to the consequences of your actions, I am not the type of person to harm myself and/or criticize others. Even if such things were to happen, they would be very few. So religious belief would truly be the much greater benefit for me and for others like me on this forum or out in the world.

Listen up cockbite. You can believe whatever stupid, crazy, petty, unfounded bullshit you want. The rest of us are not obliged to hand you a gold sticker for it.

Fucking dumbass...
I'm actually trying to win this debate. Therefore, go ahead and address the previous post I just made as well.
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13-10-2014, 02:36 AM
RE: You can be the better/stronger person without atheism
(13-10-2014 02:12 AM)MattMVS7 Wrote:  ...
Although I see what you mean, I am the type of person who (despite my christian belief in the past) does not solely rely on prayers and God. I am a type of person who does not use my religious belief as a means of thinking God will protect me or others. So my point still stands about religion having the much greater benefit for me as well as other people like me on this forum or out in the world.

So you are one of that new breed of religious people ... The Hypocristians.

You asked "...what exactly is wrong with not dealing with your problems and using delusion as an escape?"

Now, you seem to be saying:
Dealing with you problems without escapist delusion + escapist delusion (for some other reason) = problems solved
Dealing with you problems = problems solved

I must have missed the part where you described the benefits.

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13-10-2014, 02:50 AM
RE: You can be the better/stronger person without atheism
(11-10-2014 10:38 AM)MattMVS7 Wrote:  My atheism is very incompatible with my mindset (which is a mindset I will never change)

At least the dude gave you guys fair warning that any discussion with him was absolutely pointless.

The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
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13-10-2014, 03:01 AM (This post was last modified: 13-10-2014 03:16 AM by MattMVS7.)
RE: You can be the better/stronger person without atheism
(13-10-2014 02:36 AM)DLJ Wrote:  
(13-10-2014 02:12 AM)MattMVS7 Wrote:  ...
Although I see what you mean, I am the type of person who (despite my christian belief in the past) does not solely rely on prayers and God. I am a type of person who does not use my religious belief as a means of thinking God will protect me or others. So my point still stands about religion having the much greater benefit for me as well as other people like me on this forum or out in the world.

So you are one of that new breed of religious people ... The Hypocristians.

You asked "...what exactly is wrong with not dealing with your problems and using delusion as an escape?"

Now, you seem to be saying:
Dealing with you problems without escapist delusion + escapist delusion (for some other reason) = problems solved
Dealing with you problems = problems solved

I must have missed the part where you described the benefits.
If what you are saying is what would be the difference if you solved your problems being an atheist alone as opposed to being an atheist and then converting over to a religious belief, the difference would be that some people are more happy with a religious belief knowing that they will get what they want in the end (which would be an afterlife of eternal joy with no suffering). These types of people can then use that happiness as a means of motivation in actually doing more great things in life and helping more people than what atheists can achieve. Again, I know that some atheists are more motivated and can do more great things in life and help more people than some religious people can. But as for people like me, we would be the types of people to be more motivated as opposed to who we are now as atheists.

(13-10-2014 02:50 AM)Free Thought Wrote:  
(11-10-2014 10:38 AM)MattMVS7 Wrote:  My atheism is very incompatible with my mindset (which is a mindset I will never change)

At least the dude gave you guys fair warning that any discussion with him was absolutely pointless.
My own personal experience of pleasure was so great and profound that absolutely NOTHING can make me see anything anywhere near as good as or better in life than my pleasure as well as an eternal life of pleasure (heaven).
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13-10-2014, 03:17 AM
RE: You can be the better/stronger person without atheism
(13-10-2014 02:32 AM)MattMVS7 Wrote:  
(13-10-2014 02:29 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Listen up cockbite. You can believe whatever stupid, crazy, petty, unfounded bullshit you want. The rest of us are not obliged to hand you a gold sticker for it.

Fucking dumbass...
I'm actually trying to win this debate. Therefore, go ahead and address the previous post I just made as well.

What debate? You're seeking justification from others for your unjustified delusions.

They remain unjustified, despite your pathetic pleading.

You can have them, but they remain unjustified, and trying to justify them to us is an exercise in futility.



Stupid cunt... Facepalm

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13-10-2014, 03:23 AM
RE: You can be the better/stronger person without atheism
(13-10-2014 03:01 AM)MattMVS7 Wrote:  ...
If what you are saying is what would be the difference if you solved your problems being an atheist alone as opposed to being an atheist and then converting over to a religious belief,
...

I'm not saying that.

You asked:

(13-10-2014 12:59 AM)MattMVS7 Wrote:  ...
what exactly is wrong with not dealing with your problems and using delusion as an escape?
...

Then you said:

(13-10-2014 02:12 AM)MattMVS7 Wrote:  ...
I am the type of person who (despite my christian belief in the past) does not solely rely on prayers and God.
...

This implies that you simultaneously use your delusion AND non-religious problem-solving techniques.

Therefore, what I am saying is, you will get the same result (a solved problem) with or without the delusion.

Yesterday, I had a headache.

I prayed and took some panadol.

My headache went way.

Thank you Jesus.

Bowing

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13-10-2014, 03:25 AM
RE: You can be the better/stronger person without atheism
(13-10-2014 02:50 AM)Free Thought Wrote:  
(11-10-2014 10:38 AM)MattMVS7 Wrote:  My atheism is very incompatible with my mindset (which is a mindset I will never change)

At least the dude gave you guys fair warning that any discussion with him was absolutely pointless.


Except that our replies are not for his benefit.

Wink

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13-10-2014, 03:30 AM
RE: You can be the better/stronger person without atheism
(13-10-2014 03:23 AM)DLJ Wrote:  
(13-10-2014 03:01 AM)MattMVS7 Wrote:  ...
If what you are saying is what would be the difference if you solved your problems being an atheist alone as opposed to being an atheist and then converting over to a religious belief,
...

I'm not saying that.

You asked:

(13-10-2014 12:59 AM)MattMVS7 Wrote:  ...
what exactly is wrong with not dealing with your problems and using delusion as an escape?
...

Then you said:

(13-10-2014 02:12 AM)MattMVS7 Wrote:  ...
I am the type of person who (despite my christian belief in the past) does not solely rely on prayers and God.
...

This implies that you simultaneously use your delusion AND non-religious problem-solving techniques.

Therefore, what I am saying is, you will get the same result (a solved problem) with or without the delusion.

Yesterday, I had a headache.

I prayed and took some panadol.

My headache went way.

Thank you Jesus.

Bowing
The only real problem I would have here then would be the idea of there being no afterlife of eternal joy of no suffering that I can look forward to despite my life here on Earth which is now worthless since I no longer have any pleasure.
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