You can help me against a creationist...
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12-08-2013, 11:07 AM
You can help me against a creationist...
On another forum, I am in a debate with a person who believes the claims found on sites like aig.com and creation.com. He is a YEC, and denys any of the radiometric dating. He calls into question "peer review", what actual scientists consider facts, and what WE would label "pseudo-science". Here's some highlights:

http://www.answersingenesis.org/get-answ...fact-fable

"...heat can speed up radioactive decay, giving ages WAY older than they really are."

http://creation.com/age-of-the-earth

In stating that "the same method that produces computers, GPS, medical marvels, etc,...", . . . he said, "The methods used to prop up evolution and especially its father, atheism, have never produced anything of real practical value. So it is an equivocation fallacy to equate the two." He also calls those methods "actual pseudo-science".

What would be your response?
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12-08-2013, 11:14 AM (This post was last modified: 12-08-2013 11:21 AM by ridethespiral.)
RE: You can help me against a creationist...
(12-08-2013 11:07 AM)DeavonReye Wrote:  On another forum, I am in a debate with a person who believes the claims found on sites like aig.com and creation.com. He is a YEC, and denys any of the radiometric dating. He calls into question "peer review", what actual scientists consider facts, and what WE would label "pseudo-science". Here's some highlights:

http://www.answersingenesis.org/get-answ...fact-fable

"...heat can speed up radioactive decay, giving ages WAY older than they really are."

http://creation.com/age-of-the-earth

In stating that "the same method that produces computers, GPS, medical marvels, etc,...", . . . he said, "The methods used to prop up evolution and especially its father, atheism, have never produced anything of real practical value. So it is an equivocation fallacy to equate the two." He also calls those methods "actual pseudo-science".

What would be your response?

He's just refusing to accept evidence.... You can bombard him with citations to real science and watch him dance the apologists shuffle, or you could tell him that he is delusional and walk away... Or you could do what I do and offer to mail him a box of fecal matter, since he is clearly so full of shit that he must eat a large quantity of the stuff daily.

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12-08-2013, 11:18 AM
RE: You can help me against a creationist...
I wouldn't respond.

I would leave it and get on with my life.

There are plenty of sites that refute the nonsense (Iron Chariots, Origins etc.) but is your antagonist prepared to step outside of their comfort zone and look at, or take seriously, any opposing views?

I doubt it.

Sigh!

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12-08-2013, 11:49 AM
RE: You can help me against a creationist...
I usually tell people like that to keep reading their fucking bible since it is obviously all they can handle. The heavy thinking should be left to others who are up to the job.
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12-08-2013, 12:28 PM
RE: You can help me against a creationist...
I very well could go the "fuck 'em" route, . . . and I'm sure I'm not alone that I think I can influence them towards reality, . . . but I suppose sometimes a theist is SO dependent upon "creation science" to keep their god alive. But those like the one I was referring to in the OP, . . . he is convinced that the evolutionary theory DIDN'T come about by actual science, but by "pseudo-science", then promotes the webpages he did.

For example, the second link I posted has a LONG list of "reasons why the earth can't be that old". To refute all the points would take a LONG time, and probably more expertise than I personally have [as to where each point fails].

Ultimately, . . . .sometimes I feel that if I don't respond, they [and those who read the thread] will see the creationist as "the winner". I suppose, in the long run, it isn't "world in peril" stuff. So, I can understand the "ignore him" responses.
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12-08-2013, 12:31 PM
RE: You can help me against a creationist...
There is no logic and evidence that can be used against somebody who doesn't value logic and evidence.

Put it in the rearview mirror and move on.

There is no "I" in "team" but there is a broken and mixed up "me."
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12-08-2013, 12:35 PM (This post was last modified: 12-08-2013 02:16 PM by DLJ.)
RE: You can help me against a creationist...
So, close with something sardonic and pitying like...

I honestly hope that you don't end up hating your parents for what they've done to you. Remember, they were indoctrinated too and didn't have access to all the knowledge we have now.

Evil_monster

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12-08-2013, 12:36 PM
RE: You can help me against a creationist...
(12-08-2013 12:28 PM)DeavonReye Wrote:  I very well could go the "fuck 'em" route, . . . and I'm sure I'm not alone that I think I can influence them towards reality, . . . but I suppose sometimes a theist is SO dependent upon "creation science" to keep their god alive. But those like the one I was referring to in the OP, . . . he is convinced that the evolutionary theory DIDN'T come about by actual science, but by "pseudo-science", then promotes the webpages he did.

For example, the second link I posted has a LONG list of "reasons why the earth can't be that old". To refute all the points would take a LONG time, and probably more expertise than I personally have [as to where each point fails].

Ultimately, . . . .sometimes I feel that if I don't respond, they [and those who read the thread] will see the creationist as "the winner". I suppose, in the long run, it isn't "world in peril" stuff. So, I can understand the "ignore him" responses.

I understand your desire to not just write them off but DLJ and MrBill are right. Move on.

All your effort will be for naught with him/her. If you want to respond hoping that someone reading the exchange and isn't so closed minded may look into your points further then go ahead but depending on the site that isn't going to be the case.

" Generally speaking, the errors in religion are dangerous; those in philosophy only ridiculous."
David Hume
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12-08-2013, 12:54 PM
RE: You can help me against a creationist...
I see your points, guys. It is just frustrating. I'm listening to Seth's latest podcast [on youtube] and share his frustration with people who just don't seem to understand. For example, he just posted:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

““Noah flood” didn’t happen.”

The evidence SCREAMS that it did, so far as evidentialism can go, really.

Just to mention a few again, the soft folding, flat gaps, lack of root or burrower distortions between layers, sorting by highly specific types of materials (indicating burial of the entire group of layers and grains sinking at different rates depending on type), all the fossil evidence, radiocarbon, the two primary erosional alignments of pre-Flood and post-Flood (nearly everything else being parallel), Mt. St. Helens (all factors)… and this doesn’t even get into the more obvious fact that the unfakeable prophecies demonstrate God’s Word and in it he said it happened clearly.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

They are bound to these apologetic webpages. Frustrating for sure.
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12-08-2013, 01:31 PM
RE: You can help me against a creationist...
If I remember correctly, temperature can effect decay rates, but it's only slightly (like 1%), so saying that radiometric dating would produce "WAY older" results is bullshit.

“One of the painful things about our time is that those who feel certainty are stupid,
and those with any imagination and understanding are filled with doubt and indecision.”

- Bertrand Russel
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