You can't be BOTH an M.D. and a christian!
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05-04-2012, 02:27 AM
RE: You can't be BOTH an M.D. and a christian!
(05-04-2012 12:47 AM)Egor Wrote:  
(05-04-2012 12:24 AM)Quidsane Wrote:  You're a christian. Go fuck yourself.

Wrong again. Laughat

Just because I find arguing with you hilarious:

Quote: Chris┬Ětian

adj.
1. Professing belief in Jesus as Christ or following the religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus.
2. Relating to or derived from Jesus or Jesus's teachings.
3. Manifesting the qualities or spirit of Jesus; Christlike.
4. Relating to or characteristic of Christianity or its adherents.
5. Showing a loving concern for others; humane.

n.
1. One who professes belief in Jesus as Christ or follows the religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus.
2. One who lives according to the teachings of Jesus.

And I quote, "Veridicans follow the life and teachings of Jesus Christ" and "we consider Jesus Christ to be the source of truth." Fits within definitions 1, 2 and 3 for Christianity as an adjective and 1 & 2 as a noun. A very distant branch of Christianity, akin to Mormonism, but can still be grouped within Christianity as a whole. In order to get away from that, you've got to find another deity-character. Big Grin

Better without God, and happier too.
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05-04-2012, 03:54 AM
RE: You can't be BOTH an M.D. and a Christian!
(04-04-2012 08:16 PM)Quidsane Wrote:  You can't be BOTH an M.D. and a Christian!

You can say you are both, but you can't actually be both.
I'll explain. Here's the simple version:
Part of becoming a doctor of medicine is learning about evolutionary microbiology.
The aspiring med student either:
A.) believes in jesus and only answered exam questions correctly in order to pass
B.) does not believe in jesus and answered exam questions correctly because he knows the science to be true

My 2 cents. Yours?
Big Grin


The number of self professed Christian M.D.s appears to defeat your assertion. Many educated Christians have no problem with evolution and their faith comfortably working together.
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05-04-2012, 06:14 AM
RE: You can't be BOTH an M.D. and a christian!
Hey, Quidsane.

Quote:You're a christian. Go fuck yourself.

Come on now. That's not acceptable. I know that Egor has people rankled, but that's just not an acceptable thing to say to anyone.

As for your question, it's one of those times when someone is saying that an entire group cannot do something because of a stereotype. I'm sure there are Christian doctors who don't believe in evolution and I have no idea how they reconcile that, but there are far too many Christian doctors in the world, including the one who treated Chris Hitchens, to accept this as plausible.

I remember seeing an interview with a Christian professor of medicine at an evangelical medical university in the States. He said he was teaching anatomy and told the class that men and women have an equal number of ribs on each side, to which a young woman proclaimed, "That's impossible, because God took one of Adam's ribs to make woman." The teacher was devout and loved his job at the school, but felt very conflicted in a 'what the fuck do I say to that' kinda way.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
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05-04-2012, 06:26 AM
RE: You can't be BOTH an M.D. and a christian!
The same way theologians call themselves philosophers.
They compartmentalize.

The old gods are dead, let's invent some new ones before something really bad happens.
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05-04-2012, 07:36 AM
RE: You can't be BOTH an M.D. and a christian!
Stupid

Observe def. #3

You said:
(05-04-2012 12:24 AM)Quidsane Wrote:  I definitely over-simplified.
Understanding how the human body works involves evolution at a cellular level.
In my opinion, you can't (or shouldn't) call yourself a doctor if you reject this.

When I stated:

"Part of becoming a doctor of medicine is learning about evolutionary microbiology."

...what was meant was if you don't learn about (accept) evolutionary microbiology, you are not a doctor.
The very christians who don't believe in evolution, yet call themselves doctors, are not doctors.
I thought this was implied in the OP. Apologies for that.
This is a philosophical argument; what's is on their diplomas is irrelevant. Big Grin

Even YECs believe in microevlution which accepts evolution of microbiology because it's seen as adapting; not evolving.

This means that your claim is definition #3.

I hate to say this, but in denotation Egor is right. And, your comment is a little unsavory.

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05-04-2012, 09:43 AM
RE: You can't be BOTH an M.D. and a christian!
(04-04-2012 08:16 PM)Quidsane Wrote:  You can't be BOTH an M.D. and a christian!

You can say you are both, but you can't actually be both.
I'll explain. Here's the simple version:
Part of becoming a doctor of medicine is learning about evolutionary microbiology.
The aspiring med student either:
A.) believes in jesus and only answered exam questions correctly in order to pass
B.) does not believe in jesus and answered exam questions correctly because he knows the science to be true

My 2 cents. Yours?
Big Grin
Believing in evolutionary biology and believing in Jesus are not mutually exclusive, so you're presenting a false dilemma. But even if we grant you your assumption, is it possible for someone to learn enough about evolution to pass a test, even if they don't agree with it? Of course. I read the bible all the time without belief in it, and I'm fairly certain I know more about it than your average Christian does. Does that mean that I couldn't be a pastor because I don't believe what I'm studying? I'm fairly certain that I could be a pastor... an unethical, unscrupulous pastor who is abusing my position. But I could do it nonethelesss.

My girlfriend is mad at me. Perhaps I shouldn't have tried cooking a stick in her non-stick pan.
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05-04-2012, 10:09 AM
RE: You can't be BOTH an M.D. and a christian!
(05-04-2012 03:54 AM)leese Wrote:  The number of self professed Christian M.D.s appears to defeat your assertion.
...not when my assertion opens with this:

"You can say you are both, but you can't actually be both."

Guess you missed that somehow.

Again, this is a philosophical opinion; leave the diploma out of it. Big Grin

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05-04-2012, 10:13 AM
RE: You can't be BOTH an M.D. and a christian!
(05-04-2012 10:09 AM)Quidsane Wrote:  Again, this is a philosophical opinion; leave the diploma out of it. Big Grin

Ummm... no.

Christians can believe in evolution and partial evolution. Like I said, even the craziest of creationists believe in "microevolution" which is the determining factor in you saying that a doctor can't be a Christian.

It's a fallacious statement.

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05-04-2012, 10:22 AM (This post was last modified: 05-04-2012 10:38 AM by Quidsane.)
RE: You can't be BOTH an M.D. and a christian!
(05-04-2012 06:14 AM)Ghost Wrote:  Come on now. That's not acceptable. I know that Egor has people rankled, but that's just not an acceptable thing to say to anyone.
I'm not allowed to call people a christian? Big Grin
Oh. You must've meant the other part.
Could not disagree with you more, Matt.
The number of situations in which it's perfectly acceptable to say "Go fuck yourself" is damn near immeasurable.
One of those times is when a christian's sole response is "That's stupid" to anything I have to say.
Lighten up, Francis. I'm not mad at the guy.
He insulted me with the word stupid. I insulted him with the word christian. Eye for an eye, all in good fun.
"Go fuck yourself" was more or less a parenthetical aside, or maybe the cherry on top... I don't know...

(05-04-2012 07:36 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  because it's seen as adapting; not evolving.
Well, if this doesn't fit definition #3, I don't know what does.

Also, your serious tone about this goofy, half-assed thread is what is unsavory.
Did you forget how to laugh, or even smile, for that matter?
I'm laughing at myself right now, having to admit that you have a point about the definition of the word stupid! Big Grin
Clearly, I haven't explained myself well, AND people keep missing the opening line of the OP.
Oh, well...

(05-04-2012 09:43 AM)Starcrash Wrote:  Believing in evolutionary biology and believing in Jesus are not mutually exclusive, so you're presenting a false dilemma. But even if we grant you your assumption, is it possible for someone to learn enough about evolution to pass a test, even if they don't agree with it? Of course. I read the bible all the time without belief in it, and I'm fairly certain I know more about it than your average Christian does. Does that mean that I couldn't be a pastor because I don't believe what I'm studying? I'm fairly certain that I could be a pastor... an unethical, unscrupulous pastor who is abusing my position. But I could do it nonethelesss.

...perhaps I should have added the phrase "It would seem..." Consider
(05-04-2012 10:13 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  Christians can believe in evolution and partial evolution.

Macroevolution? Planetary evolution?
How does one reconcile evolution with an earth that is less than 10,000 years old?
Don't freak out. I'm just asking. Idea

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05-04-2012, 11:17 AM
RE: You can't be BOTH an M.D. and a christian!
Hey, Quidsane.

I'm sure you know this, but since you're feigning ignorance, I'll say it out loud. Go fuck yourself isn't the issue in and of itself. I tell people to go fuck themselves all the time.... when they're being assholes. An incident is a very different thing than an association. You could have said go fuck yourself as a response to this is stupid and I don't think anyone would have batted an eye; I know I wouldn't have. The issue is the link to Christianity. You're saying, I'm telling you to go fuck yourself BECAUSE you're a Christian. That is textbook bigotry. It doesn't matter if you didn't mean it, or if Egor is a prick, or if I should just chill out cuz it don't mean that much, it is what it is. If you said:
-You're a woman. Go fuck yourself.
-You're a nigger. Go fuck yourself.
-You're a cripple. Go fuck yourself.
The bigotry would be clear as day. But for anyone who thinks that you're a Christian is NOT in the same category as those, possesses a discriminatory perception of Christians. It's all right to speak to them like that because in your mind they are lesser. They are human beings first and foremost and deserve to be treated as such, regardless of how vile you might think their position is. As a black man and as someone who studies diversity, I cannot, in good conscious, let something like this slip. It is not acceptable.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
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