You can't be BOTH an M.D. and a christian!
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05-04-2012, 12:40 PM (This post was last modified: 05-04-2012 12:55 PM by Quidsane.)
RE: You can't be BOTH an M.D. and a christian!
(05-04-2012 11:17 AM)Ghost Wrote:  Hey, Quidsane.

I'm sure you know this, but since you're feigning ignorance, I'll say it out loud. Go fuck yourself isn't the issue in and of itself. I tell people to go fuck themselves all the time.... when they're being assholes. An incident is a very different thing than an association. You could have said go fuck yourself as a response to this is stupid and I don't think anyone would have batted an eye; I know I wouldn't have. The issue is the link to Christianity. You're saying, I'm telling you to go fuck yourself BECAUSE you're a Christian. That is textbook bigotry. It doesn't matter if you didn't mean it, or if Egor is a prick, or if I should just chill out cuz it don't mean that much, it is what it is. If you said:
-You're a woman. Go fuck yourself.
-You're a nigger. Go fuck yourself.
-You're a cripple. Go fuck yourself.
The bigotry would be clear as day. But for anyone who thinks that you're a Christian is NOT in the same category as those, possesses a discriminatory perception of Christians. It's all right to speak to them like that because in your mind they are lesser. They are human beings first and foremost and deserve to be treated as such, regardless of how vile you might think their position is. As a black man and as someone who studies diversity, I cannot, in good conscious, let something like this slip. It is not acceptable.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt

No, I'm not feigning ignorance. Your post is fascinating.
You seem to be insinuating that christians should be treated like children, with kid gloves.
Here is an ideology that is practiced by delusional people, which is in my view dangerous,
and you want me to respect that? And you want me to consider the feelings of those who practice it?
Of course I possess a discriminatory perception of christians. Do you think I have no reason for that?
Stupid was brought into the conversation by Mr. Christian, not by me.
What is astounding to me is that this is even an issue on an ATHEIST FORUM.

I need to address this line:

"It's all right to speak to them like that because in your mind they are lesser."

You have just described exactly how I have been looked down upon by christians for over 40 years.

No, I don't think "You're a christian" is in the same category as your other examples. Do you? Seriously?
What's next? "You're fat"? "You're tall"? "You're short"?
PC all the way, is that it? Even to the point of ridiculousness?

I must say, I've been sitting here staring at this line:

"They are human beings first and foremost and deserve to be treated as such, regardless of how vile you might think their position is."

...trying to make some sense of it (as it applies to this situation). And I'm afraid I can't.

By itself, the sentence contains words to live by. Maybe. It would depend on whether or not one thinks all human life is sacred; which I don't. The sum/the measure of a human being is what a human being thinks. Being raised in the most liberal household possible, free from religion, from racism, any kind of bigotry, I can tell you that I have heard my own mother say very similar things, if not exactly this. I'm not opposed to diversity. I'm not prejudiced against women or skin color, and certainly not "cripples" (my father, a quadriplegic, has been in a wheelchair since 1962, 6 years before I was born). I simply wasn't raised that way. So perhaps you can see why your post perplexes me. I never considered the concept of being bigoted toward an ideology, and then by proxy, bigoted toward those who practice the ideology. In fact, I'm not sure I buy that at all. I damn sure never thought that the meaning of my saying "You're a christian. Go fuck yourself." would be twisted around so as to equate with "You're a nigger. Go fuck yourself." That's just jaw-droppingly horrifying to me.
And patently unfair.

As I explained (not well enough, I guess) in post #9, what was meant by "You're a christian. Go fuck yourself." was:
I'm stupid? No, you're stupid.
If you would like to read that as: "You're stupid because you're a christian and you're lesser than me." Feel free.
If that makes me guilty of bigotry against those who believe an old man lives in the sky, so be it.

DERAILED, but so what?
I've noticed that "rampant" is not an accurate enough word to describe the derailing around here, haha!

In the future, I will make sure and be very freakin' clear about points I'm trying to make.
For instance, in this thread, I should have said something along the lines of:

"It seems to me that one shouldn't call oneself a doctor if one does not actually believe the "laws of medicine", as it were."

Many thanks to those who continue to point out how full of shite I am; without you I'm nothing.

Live and learn... Tongue

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05-04-2012, 03:42 PM
RE: You can't be BOTH an M.D. and a christian!
As a nursing student I'm finding that evolution is highly needed in the medical field. The comments I'm seeing really don't add up to the true severity of the situation. Misinformation that is issued daily that directly ties to evolutionary predictions do apply to doctors. To say that someone can be a great doctor and not accept the fact of evolution could be correct if that doctor never once issued an order for medicine among other things.

I personally think any doctor I will see that doesn't accept the fact of evolution isn't a good one. They are only following the motions.

As far as the other thing everyone is up in arms about, pfft whatever, say what you like. If people get offended at the drop of a hat then they are overly sensitive in my book.

It's time we celebrated our differences anyway! Smile

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— idiot adjective
See Republican Candidates.

Keeping realism alive, one honest offensive comment at a time!
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05-04-2012, 04:39 PM (This post was last modified: 05-04-2012 04:43 PM by Question.)
RE: You can't be BOTH an M.D. and a christian!
They can be, but if you're talking about a historian or scientist the results become iffy.

Some Christians believe God made man via evolution. So its not a issue.

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Bury me with my guns on, so when I'm cast out of the sky, I can shoot the devil right between the eyes.
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05-04-2012, 09:56 PM (This post was last modified: 05-04-2012 10:00 PM by Starcrash.)
RE: You can't be BOTH an M.D. and a christian!
(05-04-2012 03:42 PM)Clint Barnett Wrote:  As a nursing student I'm finding that evolution is highly needed in the medical field. The comments I'm seeing really don't add up to the true severity of the situation. Misinformation that is issued daily that directly ties to evolutionary predictions do apply to doctors.
I think you're equivocating "medical field". Unless a doctor is directly working with discovering new vaccinations, it's unlikely that he or she would need a working knowledge of evolution to do his or her job. One can accept that vaccinations are needed every year and that they constantly change without believing in evolution... my theist parents would be great examples of such people. But it is my understanding that a person's symptoms do not reflect evolution nor require knowledge of evolution to translate, so evolution is not necessary for diagnosing, and medicines likewise do not change according to evolution so it isn't necessary to understand human evolution to match the right medicine with the symptoms.

I'm not a nursing student, so I could be wrong. If I am, please enlighten me on what a doctor or nurse needs to know about evolution to properly diagnose or treat patients.

My girlfriend is mad at me. Perhaps I shouldn't have tried cooking a stick in her non-stick pan.
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06-04-2012, 01:13 AM
RE: You can't be BOTH an M.D. and a Christian!
(05-04-2012 10:09 AM)Quidsane Wrote:  
(05-04-2012 03:54 AM)leese Wrote:  The number of self professed Christian M.D.s appears to defeat your assertion.
...not when my assertion opens with this:

"You can say you are both, but you can't actually be both."

Guess you missed that somehow.

Again, this is a philosophical opinion; leave the diploma out of it. Big Grin


Perhaps I missed where your OP stated Ray Comfort M.D. as the stereotype.

Not all Christians are at odds with evolution.

Kinda like not all Atheists are Christian bashers.
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06-04-2012, 02:33 AM
RE: You can't be BOTH an M.D. and a christian!
Kingschosen is a good example of someone who is a theist who believes in evolution. It is most definitely safe to say that not all christians follow the traditional YEC theory, and even then, not all YEC types think that science is a horrible thing.

So I don't think it's fair to say that if you're religious that you can't be a medical doctor. One of the best doctors I ever worked with was a Christian fellow. He is wildly intelligent, very good at diagnosis, has a ton of expertise in the field and does not allow his religious views to get in the way of his profession. I can't think of a single time that I ever in fact heard him talk about religion while on the job. He was a brilliant guy to work with for the short time I worked with him.

I'd be more than happy to let him diagnose me and put my life in his hands any day of the week if need be.

The only time I think that it would get in the way of a medical profession would be if someone ends up instead of siding with things such as medicine and treatment, they say: "Well I'm sorry but the best thing I can say is... pray." then we've got issues.

But if I go in and say "Hey doc, this hurts and this hurts." and he says based off of his best knowledge, experience and diagnosis that I need to take x milligrams of x medicine for x days because of the way it affects x bacteria in my system and will kill it, well, ok doc, sounds awesome. Thanks!

If a doctor isn't honestly following the science, however, I can see how that would run into issues. But again, then we're getting on the technicalities of those who follow denominations who perhaps don't accept science vs those who do follow science. So I don't think you can put all theists in that box or all of christianity in that box or all of catholics in that box.
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06-04-2012, 04:04 AM (This post was last modified: 06-04-2012 04:18 AM by Filox.)
RE: You can't be BOTH an M.D. and a christian!
I'll just be jumping from the first post all the way here, without reading any other posts...

Your post may be correct, if you have specified what kind of Christians you were referring to. In Croatia there are no atheist M.D.'s (since Croatia is one of the most Catholic countries in the world), at least 90% of them are Christians, but Roman-Catholics, not stupid ID Creationists, so they have no problem accepting evolution, science, evidence and everything else. Roman-Catholics do not take the Bible literally, so they can change the meaning as it suits them at that moment.

I know a leading psychiatrist that is a huge Christian. Makes no difference for her job.

But you could never be a Pentecostal and a doctor, at least not a normal one.

Smile


EDIT:
Now I have read all posts. If you want to say "Go fuck yourself" to someone, but do not want to sound like an asshole who just insulted someone, then you should put a smiley next to it. Like this:

Shut the fuck up and go fuck yourself, you stupid Jew! Smile

There, now it is not an insult anymore.

Big Grin

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06-04-2012, 04:57 AM
RE: You can't be BOTH an M.D. and a christian!
Whadda mean, can't be both? Doctors suck, and Christians suck, so there it is...

And Ghost, go fuck yourself.

Big Grin

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06-04-2012, 05:32 AM
RE: You can't be BOTH an M.D. and a christian!
You know what HoC, go fuck yourself!!

Tongue

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06-04-2012, 05:36 AM
RE: You can't be BOTH an M.D. and a christian!
Again? Think I'm out of go juice; hafta settle for a dry hump.

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