You gotta love Buddhist cosmology
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
30-01-2014, 11:55 PM
RE: You gotta love Buddhist cosmology
(29-01-2014 11:12 PM)Vosur Wrote:  
(29-01-2014 11:10 PM)ghostexorcist Wrote:  Shoot! It's "not available in your country." I guess I'll have to look it up elsewhere.
Give me a moment, I'll re-upload it on my own channel.

Edit: Apparently, YouTube blocks it for your country that way as well. Here is the same video from Dailymotion:



HA! I think I where Mr. Smith from the Matrix must have gotten his inspiration from...Carl Sagan! Listen to this clip and tell me it ain't so.




“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Full Circle's post
31-01-2014, 12:44 AM
RE: You gotta love Buddhist cosmology
(30-01-2014 11:02 AM)ghostexorcist Wrote:  Anyway, I think this thread has gotten off track. It somehow transformed from one highlighting the funny similarities between two religious mythologies to a discussion about historical Buddhist doctrine and the merits (or lack there of) of later sects.

Not sure what you mean about "two religious mythologies"?

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
31-01-2014, 12:49 AM
RE: You gotta love Buddhist cosmology
(30-01-2014 11:46 PM)Compassion4Life Wrote:  
(30-01-2014 12:40 AM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  Thanks.

The Buddha used a lot of extant mythology (including contemporary karma-and-reincarnation beliefs) as illustrative teaching tools, especially relating the various "gods" and/or "realms" he would describe to mental states. From a quick scan of the section you cited, it appears to me on first blush that this is what he is doing there. It might be useful to bear in mind that the translator, Bhikkhu Bodhi, is an "evangelical" karma/reincarnation-believer who actively skews his translations with language that incorporates his reincarnation-belief spin. One example is his constant mistranslation of the Pali to the word "re-born", when the actual Pali word (jati) meant "born". Also, much of the Digha appears to reflect later influences than the Majjhima and Samyutta Nikayas, and some of it is rather suspect.

Wikipedia is a LOUSY place to try to learn anything about Buddhism. Way too many woo-meisters (mahayanists, abhidhammists,and tibetan-religion-types) throwing in their beloved superstitious woo), and not much reference to the Buddha's own "secular" teachings.

Thank you for your helpful comments in this thread Taqiyya Mockingbird. It is often misunderstood that the Buddha originally taught superstitious beliefs, and this is not true. He did, as you said, use these beliefs as an illustrating teaching tool (in other words he adapted the beliefs of other cultures to explain his points to those particular students who held those cultural beliefs). His teachings were actually secular. He had no concern for the supernatural or any kind of afterlife. Those things were added to Buddhism by the different cultures that adopted Buddhism and added their own spiritual beliefs into it.

I think an excellent anecdote that I read is this:

The Buddha was asked "What have you gained from meditation?"
The Buddha replied "Nothing! However, let me tell you what I have lost: anger, anxiety, depression, insecurity, fear of old age and death."

That is the true purpose of the teachings of the Buddha: to be able to rid ourselves of the negatives in our lives, and by doing so, achieve personal happiness. The Buddha taught all of his students differently though. This is because he adapted his style of teaching to each individual student because not everybody learns the same way (this included a person's cultural beliefs, as Taqiyya Mockingbird stated). He also taught that there is no one true path to happiness. We all must find our own path. He taught that to find truth a person is to question everything, including his teachings.


I would question the historical authenticity of the anecdote you cite, but I think that the spirit of that story is dead-on. Pretty much sums up my understanding of the origjnal teachings attributed to him, if he really existed. Thumbsup

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
31-01-2014, 12:53 AM
RE: You gotta love Buddhist cosmology
(31-01-2014 12:44 AM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  
(30-01-2014 11:02 AM)ghostexorcist Wrote:  Anyway, I think this thread has gotten off track. It somehow transformed from one highlighting the funny similarities between two religious mythologies to a discussion about historical Buddhist doctrine and the merits (or lack there of) of later sects.

Not sure what you mean about "two religious mythologies"?

That of Buddhism and Christianity (or Judaism). The passing similarities being a supposedly omnipotent god thinking they have always existed. The initial quote I gave speaks of hubris, one of many human qualities often projected onto the Judeo-Christian god.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
31-01-2014, 01:08 AM
RE: You gotta love Buddhist cosmology
(30-01-2014 11:02 AM)ghostexorcist Wrote:  Later Buddhism absorbed Brahmanist/Vedic cosmology into its pantheon, thus becoming Buddhist cosmology. Again, each has their own cultural merit.
Genau. Exactly. I have a Vietnamese friend who worships that goddess/thingie that starts with an "A", that I can't ever seem to remember the name of...she is a good and kind human being, wouldn't hurt a fly. There is something to be said about that, actually.

I think that the bottom line is that we, as a "thinking/empathetic species", tend to try to logically justify and codify our natural social-animal instincts to take care of one another in some way that we can share this instinct with others. At least those who might listen.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Taqiyya Mockingbird's post
31-01-2014, 01:19 AM
RE: You gotta love Buddhist cosmology
(31-01-2014 12:53 AM)ghostexorcist Wrote:  
(31-01-2014 12:44 AM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  Not sure what you mean about "two religious mythologies"?

That of Buddhism and Christianity (or Judaism). The passing similarities being a supposedly omnipotent god thinking they have always existed. The initial quote I gave speaks of hubris, one of many human qualities often projected onto the Judeo-Christian god.

OK, well, I thing perhaps therein lies a bit of a problem.

I don't think I have seen *any* sect of Buddhism that claims or posits any sort of omniscient god, who has "always existed" or otherwise. I think the best I can say is...


Citation Needed.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
31-01-2014, 07:21 AM
RE: You gotta love Buddhist cosmology
(31-01-2014 12:49 AM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  I would question the historical authenticity of the anecdote you cite, but I think that the spirit of that story is dead-on. Pretty much sums up my understanding of the origjnal teachings attributed to him, if he really existed. Thumbsup

Yes, I was not implying that the anecdote was a historically accurate one. I think whoever came up with it was merely intending to illustrate a point. Smile
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Compassion4Life's post
31-01-2014, 08:20 AM
RE: You gotta love Buddhist cosmology
(31-01-2014 12:53 AM)ghostexorcist Wrote:  That of Buddhism and Christianity (or Judaism). The passing similarities being a supposedly omnipotent god thinking they have always existed. The initial quote I gave speaks of hubris, one of many human qualities often projected onto the Judeo-Christian god.

I have never heard of such a thing. Are these people claiming that the Buddha himself is an omniscient god? That would be a total perversion of the Buddha and his teachings. It took the Buddha a long time to achieve his goal, which was to achieve a state of mind where he had conquered the negative emotions of life. To claim that he was omniscient would mean that he was simply born knowing all of this, and that goes completely against his teachings and any biographical information on his life. If he were omniscient, why would he have taught students differently? Why would he have told he students that they were to question everything, including his own teachings? He was a mortal man, and he never claimed to be anything more than that. Anybody who makes him out to be some omniscient god is delusional, and I'm sure that the Buddha himself would have told that to anybody who made such a claim.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
31-01-2014, 12:24 PM
RE: You gotta love Buddhist cosmology
(31-01-2014 01:08 AM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  Genau. Exactly. I have a Vietnamese friend who worships that goddess/thingie that starts with an "A", that I can't ever seem to remember the name of...she is a good and kind human being, wouldn't hurt a fly. There is something to be said about that, actually.

I think that the bottom line is that we, as a "thinking/empathetic species", tend to try to logically justify and codify our natural social-animal instincts to take care of one another in some way that we can share this instinct with others. At least those who might listen.

I think that might be Avalokiteshvara, or Guanyin/Kannon as she is known elsewhere.

(31-01-2014 01:19 AM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  OK, well, I thing perhaps therein lies a bit of a problem.

I don't think I have seen *any* sect of Buddhism that claims or posits any sort of omniscient god, who has "always existed" or otherwise. I think the best I can say is...

Citation Needed.

Which is true because of the whole dissolution and rebirth of the cosmos. The "always existed" part refers to the delusional state of mind of the one who arises in the Brahma realm first and then watches others come afterwards.

(31-01-2014 08:20 AM)Compassion4Life Wrote:  I have never heard of such a thing. Are these people claiming that the Buddha himself is an omniscient god? That would be a total perversion of the Buddha and his teachings. It took the Buddha a long time to achieve his goal, which was to achieve a state of mind where he had conquered the negative emotions of life. To claim that he was omniscient would mean that he was simply born knowing all of this, and that goes completely against his teachings and any biographical information on his life. If he were omniscient, why would he have taught students differently? Why would he have told he students that they were to question everything, including his own teachings? He was a mortal man, and he never claimed to be anything more than that. Anybody who makes him out to be some omniscient god is delusional, and I'm sure that the Buddha himself would have told that to anybody who made such a claim.

No, it's referring to an aspect of the Buddhist variant of Brahma.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
01-02-2014, 08:51 PM
RE: You gotta love Buddhist cosmology
"The Buddhist variant of 'Brahma'?"

Citation, please?

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: