You guys are some of the most stubborn, unyielding, and bitter people I've ever met.
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02-12-2016, 09:14 AM
RE: You guys are some of the most stubborn, unyielding, and bitter people I've ever met.
(02-12-2016 08:29 AM)ukatheist Wrote:  So you think the reduction in support from 53% in 2003, to 47% in 2009 is 'evidence' that the UK gov't is using Dawkins as a tool to spread pro-war propaganda to the masses?

Do you realise how insane you sound?

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Well I haven't seen you name any facets for government propaganda. Dawkins is just one facet, there are many like him, and facets don't even have to be aware of their part they're playing. But I am sure Dawkins is fully aware of his part.

Besides you came in here stating that the common folk of the UK never supported the wars in the middle east, I proved you wrong in that regard.

Do you realize how insane it is to not believe that you're government (and other institutions) is using propaganda to try and sway your opinion?

An individual facet is just one of a much grander waterworks.

So no its not that insane.

(02-12-2016 08:54 AM)adey67 Wrote:  
(02-12-2016 08:29 AM)ukatheist Wrote:  So you think the reduction in support from 53% in 2003, to 47% in 2009 is 'evidence' that the UK gov't is using Dawkins as a tool to spread pro-war propaganda to the masses?

Do you realise how insane you sound?

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As mad as a bag of monkeys mate, totally tonto.

Depends... are the monkeys dead?
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02-12-2016, 09:25 AM
RE: You guys are some of the most stubborn, unyielding, and bitter people I've ever met.
But the support is going down! If the govt is using propaganda to sway people in favour, they are really, really bad at it. I think the grander waterworks must have sprung a leak!



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02-12-2016, 09:25 AM
RE: You guys are some of the most stubborn, unyielding, and bitter people I've ever met.
(02-12-2016 09:14 AM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  
(02-12-2016 08:29 AM)ukatheist Wrote:  So you think the reduction in support from 53% in 2003, to 47% in 2009 is 'evidence' that the UK gov't is using Dawkins as a tool to spread pro-war propaganda to the masses?

Do you realise how insane you sound?

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Well I haven't seen you name any facets for government propaganda. Dawkins is just one facet, there are many like him, and facets don't even have to be aware of their part they're playing. But I am sure Dawkins is fully aware of his part.

Besides you came in here stating that the common folk of the UK never supported the wars in the middle east, I proved you wrong in that regard.

Do you realize how insane it is to not believe that you're government (and other institutions) is using propaganda to try and sway your opinion?

An individual facet is just one of a much grander waterworks.

So no its not that insane.

(02-12-2016 08:54 AM)adey67 Wrote:  As mad as a bag of monkeys mate, totally tonto.

Depends... are the monkeys dead?
If they were dead they wouldn't be mad.
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02-12-2016, 09:46 AM (This post was last modified: 02-12-2016 09:50 AM by Celestial_Wonder.)
RE: You guys are some of the most stubborn, unyielding, and bitter people I've ever met.
(02-12-2016 09:25 AM)ukatheist Wrote:  But the support is going down! If the govt is using propaganda to sway people in favour, they are really, really bad at it. I think the grander waterworks must have sprung a leak!



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Its easy to sway peoples opinion, its another thing entirely to keep their opinion swayed. For one force that is trying to accrue something will be meant by another force trying to deprive them.

Its not that the waterworks has sprung a leak, its that the waterworks is sabotaged by the other forces, replacing the system with their own waterworks little by little.

WW1 was pretty much the start of the war of propaganda. Its been a pretty long lasting war. I mean if we wanted to get technical there was quite a bit of propaganda going on during the American Civil War.
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02-12-2016, 10:03 AM
RE: You guys are some of the most stubborn, unyielding, and bitter people I've ever met.
(02-12-2016 09:46 AM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  WW1 was pretty much the start of the war of propaganda. Its been a pretty long lasting war. I mean if we wanted to get technical there was quite a bit of propaganda going on during the American Civil War.

Propaganda is at least as old as Roman Empire.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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02-12-2016, 10:10 AM
RE: You guys are some of the most stubborn, unyielding, and bitter people I've ever met.
(02-12-2016 10:03 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  
(02-12-2016 09:46 AM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  WW1 was pretty much the start of the war of propaganda. Its been a pretty long lasting war. I mean if we wanted to get technical there was quite a bit of propaganda going on during the American Civil War.

Propaganda is at least as old as Roman Empire.

Probably older than that, but they weren't very consistent in their methodology. Only recently have wars been fought by people believing it was 'honorable' to fight and die for ones nation without any material gain except the 'glory' of having fought in the war.To keep up that masquerade a system of propaganda had to be developed. I mean you can plant a few seeds here and there but that doesn't make what you have a farm.
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02-12-2016, 10:31 AM (This post was last modified: 02-12-2016 11:02 AM by Szuchow.)
RE: You guys are some of the most stubborn, unyielding, and bitter people I've ever met.
(02-12-2016 10:10 AM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  
(02-12-2016 10:03 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  Propaganda is at least as old as Roman Empire.

Probably older than that, but they weren't very consistent in their methodology. Only recently have wars been fought by people believing it was 'honorable' to fight and die for ones nation without any material gain except the 'glory' of having fought in the war.To keep up that masquerade a system of propaganda had to be developed. I mean you can plant a few seeds here and there but that doesn't make what you have a farm.

Wars of ancient times weren't fought for glory you say? Roman generals didn't started conflicts to earn right to triumph? Quick google search prove you wrong - https://books.google.de/books?id=y1ngxn_...ty&f=false


You can also check poetry of Tyrtaeus -

"For it is a fine thing for a man having fallen nobly amid the fore-fighters to die, fighting on behalf of the fatherland".

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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02-12-2016, 10:48 AM
RE: You guys are some of the most stubborn, unyielding, and bitter people I've ever met.
I think this thread is giving me cancer.
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02-12-2016, 12:18 PM
RE: You guys are some of the most stubborn, unyielding, and bitter people I've ever met.
(02-12-2016 10:10 AM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  Only recently have wars been fought by people believing it was 'honorable' to fight and die for ones nation without any material gain except the 'glory' of having fought in the war.

That is one of the stupidest and most historically inaccurate things I have heard out of you so far.

Bravo, I guess.

When valour preys on reason, it eats the sword it fights with.
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02-12-2016, 12:41 PM
RE: You guys are some of the most stubborn, unyielding, and bitter people I've ever met.
(02-12-2016 10:10 AM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  Only recently have wars been fought by people believing it was 'honorable' to fight and die for ones nation without any material gain except the 'glory' of having fought in the war.

"Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori" ("It is sweet and proper to die for one's country") -- Horace (ancient Roman poet)

You have a funny definition of "recently".
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