You guys are some of the most stubborn, unyielding, and bitter people I've ever met.
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
03-12-2016, 11:49 AM
RE: You guys are some of the most stubborn, unyielding, and bitter people I've ever met.
(03-12-2016 11:17 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  So there is no such thing as rehabilitation? Interesting concept but as valid as your assertion about wars for glory being modern invention I feel.

Glory doesn't feed your children, but money will buy the food that will feed them. Most ancient warriors fought for money, not glory. Its common sense.

Quote:Stop not inhibit. However life sentence serves the same purpose and it easier to let out someone wrongly convicted than ressurect such person.

You call for the cessation of executions based on that some innocent people are wrongfully convicted. Why? Why aren't you demanding that a stricter process be taken to greatly reduce the number of people wrongly convicted in the first place?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
03-12-2016, 11:50 AM
RE: You guys are some of the most stubborn, unyielding, and bitter people I've ever met.
(03-12-2016 07:58 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  Mofo needs Edgelords Anonymous.

See, now I fuckin' loled over this. You're a kick in the ass, HoC.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
03-12-2016, 12:07 PM
You guys are some of the most stubborn, unyielding, and bitter people I've ever met.
(03-12-2016 11:49 AM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  
(03-12-2016 11:17 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  So there is no such thing as rehabilitation? Interesting concept but as valid as your assertion about wars for glory being modern invention I feel.

Most ancient warriors fought for money, not glory. Its common sense.

Your ignorance is embarassing, at least to your readers. Blush
The correct english term is vicarious embarrassment iirc.

Ceterum censeo, religionem delendam esse
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Deesse23's post
03-12-2016, 12:08 PM (This post was last modified: 03-12-2016 12:12 PM by Szuchow.)
RE: You guys are some of the most stubborn, unyielding, and bitter people I've ever met.
(03-12-2016 11:49 AM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  
(03-12-2016 11:17 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  So there is no such thing as rehabilitation? Interesting concept but as valid as your assertion about wars for glory being modern invention I feel.

Glory doesn't feed your children, but money will buy the food that will feed them.


So I guess modern wars too aren't fought for glory or honor of dying for the nation?

Quote: Most ancient warriors fought for money, not glory. Its common sense.


I don't care about your so called common sense. Seeing as your knowledge of history is for shit citation is needed.

Quote:Stop not inhibit. However life sentence serves the same purpose and it easier to let out someone wrongly convicted than ressurect such person.

Quote: You call for the cessation of executions based on that some innocent people are wrongfully convicted. Why? Why aren't you demanding that a stricter process be taken to greatly reduce the number of people wrongly convicted in the first place?

I'm not calling for anything just showing why your "arguments" are without merit. Life sentence serves the same purpose as death penalty. You just childishly want to kill wrongdoers; I doubt you gave much thought to what you write.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Szuchow's post
03-12-2016, 12:33 PM (This post was last modified: 03-12-2016 12:56 PM by Celestial_Wonder.)
RE: You guys are some of the most stubborn, unyielding, and bitter people I've ever met.
(03-12-2016 12:08 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  So I guess modern wars too aren't fought for glory or honor of dying for the nation?

Depends on who is fighting, there is a reason why recruiters go after high school students, because they have all of those nonsensical ideas about honor and glory.

The older you get, the more practical you become on such matters.

Quote:I don't care about your so called common sense. Seeing as your knowledge of history is for shit citation is needed.

"War booty, although not always the primary motive for conflict, was certainly a much-needed benefit for the victor which allowed him to pay his troops and justify the expense of the military campaign. Booty could come in the form of territory, money, precious materials, weapons, and armour. The losers, if not executed, could expect to be sold into slavery, the normal fate for the women and children of the losing side. It was typical for 10% of the booty (a dekaten) to be dedicated in thanks to the gods at one of the great religious sanctuaries such as Delphi or Olympia. These sites became veritable treasuries and, effectively, museums of weapons and armour. They also became too tempting a target for more unscrupulous leaders in later times, but still the majority of surviving military material comes from archaeological excavations at these sites." Ancient History Encyclopedia

"The Taking of booty was perhaps the largest movement of capital in Greek civic life" - Studies in Ancient Greek and Roman Society

"“Booty” describes a thing of value taken by violence. Although the study of Greek and Roman booty often focuses on its economic impact, its cultural significance was powerful and enduring: booty, the physical manifestation of both violent prowess and property ownership, represented the combined essence of wealth and glory." - The Encyclopedia of Ancient History

[Image: 54030282.jpg]
[Image: 65250131.jpg]

Quote: I'm not calling for anything just showing why your "arguments" are without merit. Life sentence serves the same purpose as death penalty. You just childishly want to kill wrongdoers; I doubt you gave much thought to what you write.

They'll always be a danger to those around them, even in prison, and I would not want to keep an innocent person in with such dangerous criminals for any extended period of time. You're not solving anything until you drastically reduce the number of innocent people convicted, until then the situation only becomes worse as the released offenders commit more crimes which innocent people get convicted for. So not only have you not stopped anyone from suffering, but you've also allowed more innocent people to get convicted for the crimes of the person you could have done away with the first time.

And if we're being entirely honest, they're almost never put in for life in prison.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
03-12-2016, 01:21 PM (This post was last modified: 03-12-2016 01:41 PM by Szuchow.)
RE: You guys are some of the most stubborn, unyielding, and bitter people I've ever met.
(03-12-2016 12:33 PM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  
(03-12-2016 12:08 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  So I guess modern wars too aren't fought for glory or honor of dying for the nation?

Depends on who is fighting, there is a reason why recruiters go after high school students, because they have all of those nonsensical ideas about honor and glory.

The older you get, the more practical you become on such matters.


If you say so then it must be so.

Quote:I don't care about your so called common sense. Seeing as your knowledge of history is for shit citation is needed.

Quote: "War booty, although not always the primary motive for conflict, was certainly a much-needed benefit for the victor which allowed him to pay his troops and justify the expense of the military campaign. Booty could come in the form of territory, money, precious materials, weapons, and armour. The losers, if not executed, could expect to be sold into slavery, the normal fate for the women and children of the losing side. It was typical for 10% of the booty (a dekaten) to be dedicated in thanks to the gods at one of the great religious sanctuaries such as Delphi or Olympia. These sites became veritable treasuries and, effectively, museums of weapons and armour. They also became too tempting a target for more unscrupulous leaders in later times, but still the majority of surviving military material comes from archaeological excavations at these sites." Ancient History Encyclopedia

"The Taking of booty was perhaps the largest movement of capital in Greek civic life" - Studies in Ancient Greek and Roman Society

"“Booty” describes a thing of value taken by violence. Although the study of Greek and Roman booty often focuses on its economic impact, its cultural significance was powerful and enduring: booty, the physical manifestation of both violent prowess and property ownership, represented the combined essence of wealth and glory." - The Encyclopedia of Ancient History


And point of these quotes is? Is there fragment in them which say that wars were waged exclusively for material gain? You failed again.

You could also check these links - https://books.google.de/books?id=z31s7HL...ty&f=false

https://www.google.de/url?sa=t&source=we...xjKPsEdTZQ

Edit: If link does not work copy and paste it in full.

Lastly I again will mention Tyrtaeus. Maybe his poetry will give you some insight.

Edit 2: One could assume that wars of antiquity weren't caused by single factor be that glory or money. However nothing you quoted prove your earlier assertion, booty is only shown as something important not main and decisive cause. Maybe next time try to add some humility into your pontifications.

Quote: I'm not calling for anything just showing why your "arguments" are without merit. Life sentence serves the same purpose as death penalty. You just childishly want to kill wrongdoers; I doubt you gave much thought to what you write.

Quote: They'll always be a danger to those around them, even in prison, and I would not want to keep an innocent person in with such dangerous criminals for any extended period of time. You're not solving anything until you drastically reduce the number of innocent people convicted, until then the situation only becomes worse as the released offenders commit more crimes which innocent people get convicted for.


As long as you don't provide believable data showing how many innocent people are incarcerated for crimes of unrehabilitated recidivists I won't treat what you saying seriously.

Quote: So not only have you not stopped anyone from suffering, but you've also allowed more innocent people to get convicted for the crimes of the person you could have done away with the first time.

See above.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
03-12-2016, 02:05 PM
RE: You guys are some of the most stubborn, unyielding, and bitter people I've ever met.
Hey Celestial Mind control.

I'll tell you what. I have never been in this sites Boxing Ring.

However I would like to debate you on the history and reasons for warfare throughout the ages.

Are you up to it?

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like Banjo's post
03-12-2016, 04:34 PM (This post was last modified: 03-12-2016 04:37 PM by SitaSky.)
You guys are some of the most stubborn, unyielding, and bitter people I've ever met.
(03-12-2016 02:53 AM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  You know what will really keep them in line? Death.

I don't want to punish them, I just want to end their existence.

I never said I'd let them burn. But that does depend entirely on the severity of their crime. I mean, I might let him burn, but since there is almost no way of me knowing how he committed his crime, I'd probably put him out. But if I did know how he committed his crime and if he inflicted a great deal of pain on his victims by say torturing them and then killing them.

I'd most certainly let him burn.

There are some really wicked and sick people out there. And I have no intention of helping them.

Wow you really are a child aren't you?

When I was in school I took psychology classes and learned about Kohlberg's stages of moral reasoning, almost every human being goes through these stages (unless they are a sociopath or just really immature) at certain ages and eventually if they are lucky they reach the final stage, a level 6 of universal morality, I happen to be a level 6 , you are a level 1 or 2. Here is what it looks like:

[Image: kolberg-1-550x382.png]

"Stage 1 focuses on the child's desire to obey rules and avoid being punished. For example, an action is perceived as morally wrong because the perpetrator is punished; the worse the punishment for the act is, the more "bad" the act is perceived to be."

Stage 1 people tend to think a wrong action should have an equal and just as painful (such as burning) punishment, the more wrong the action, the more painful the punishment, like killing someone because they're a murderer or burning someone because they raped a child. As long as you don't commit any wrong acts you won't be punished, not very complex but it get's the job done. Most children operate at this level, this is grade school thinking you're dealing with.

Stage 2 people have a fair is fair kind of attitude, if I do the "right" thing I will be awarded and people will like me. If they are nice, I will love them, if they are mean, I hate them! This is still small kids and up until early teens.

You can read about it here:
Kohlberg's Stages of Moral Development

So as you can see you are quite literally arguing from the point of view of a child who thinks bad people should die because they don't see them as being human anymore, they have no real sense of empathy/compassion and don't realize killing a bad person will also make them a killer since they have no concept of personal integrity.

I wouldn't want to kill someone as a punishment or be a proxy like capital punishment because it goes against my moral values. I would kill in self defense but only if it was the only way to save myself or someone else but you are advocating for letting regular everyday people like yourself decide who lives and who dies because they did a bad thing or just said a bad thing like Dawkins. If I had to guess I'd say you were 10-17 years old. If you are actually older I'd be very surprised but not shocked since some adults, especially hardcore religious people feel the way you do, they also tend to call bad people "wicked".

Just so you can broaden your mind a little bit on why I feel the way I do, please read the humanist's case against capital punishment here:
The Humanist Case Against Capital Punishment

I'm done with this whole conversation and I did some research and posted some links so you can expand your narrow mind, your'e welcome but seriously this whole thread started because you wanted a cookie for being so loving toward us and even though you showed your true colors and you're actually an immature hippie who sees the world in black and white I'll give you want you want, here's a damn cookie:

[Image: 9734951.jpg]

[Image: sagansig_zps6vhbql6m.jpg]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 7 users Like SitaSky's post
03-12-2016, 08:02 PM
RE: You guys are some of the most stubborn, unyielding, and bitter people I've ever met.
(03-12-2016 04:34 PM)SitaSky Wrote:  
(03-12-2016 02:53 AM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  You know what will really keep them in line? Death.

I don't want to punish them, I just want to end their existence.

I never said I'd let them burn. But that does depend entirely on the severity of their crime. I mean, I might let him burn, but since there is almost no way of me knowing how he committed his crime, I'd probably put him out. But if I did know how he committed his crime and if he inflicted a great deal of pain on his victims by say torturing them and then killing them.

I'd most certainly let him burn.

There are some really wicked and sick people out there. And I have no intention of helping them.

Wow you really are a child aren't you?

When I was in school I took psychology classes and learned about Kohlberg's stages of moral reasoning, almost every human being goes through these stages (unless they are a sociopath or just really immature) at certain ages and eventually if they are lucky they reach the final stage, a level 6 of universal morality, I happen to be a level 6 , you are a level 1 or 2. Here is what it looks like:

[Image: kolberg-1-550x382.png]

"Stage 1 focuses on the child's desire to obey rules and avoid being punished. For example, an action is perceived as morally wrong because the perpetrator is punished; the worse the punishment for the act is, the more "bad" the act is perceived to be."

Stage 1 people tend to think a wrong action should have an equal and just as painful (such as burning) punishment, the more wrong the action, the more painful the punishment, like killing someone because they're a murderer or burning someone because they raped a child. As long as you don't commit any wrong acts you won't be punished, not very complex but it get's the job done. Most children operate at this level, this is grade school thinking you're dealing with.

Stage 2 people have a fair is fair kind of attitude, if I do the "right" thing I will be awarded and people will like me. If they are nice, I will love them, if they are mean, I hate them! This is still small kids and up until early teens.

You can read about it here:
Kohlberg's Stages of Moral Development

So as you can see you are quite literally arguing from the point of view of a child who thinks bad people should die because they don't see them as being human anymore, they have no real sense of empathy/compassion and don't realize killing a bad person will also make them a killer since they have no concept of personal integrity.

I wouldn't want to kill someone as a punishment or be a proxy like capital punishment because it goes against my moral values. I would kill in self defense but only if it was the only way to save myself or someone else but you are advocating for letting regular everyday people like yourself decide who lives and who dies because they did a bad thing or just said a bad thing like Dawkins. If I had to guess I'd say you were 10-17 years old. If you are actually older I'd be very surprised but not shocked since some adults, especially hardcore religious people feel the way you do, they also tend to call bad people "wicked".

Just so you can broaden your mind a little bit on why I feel the way I do, please read the humanist's case against capital punishment here:
The Humanist Case Against Capital Punishment

I'm done with this whole conversation and I did some research and posted some links so you can expand your narrow mind, your'e welcome but seriously this whole thread started because you wanted a cookie for being so loving toward us and even though you showed your true colors and you're actually an immature hippie who sees the world in black and white I'll give you want you want, here's a damn cookie:

[Image: 9734951.jpg]

And why does 'capital punishment' go against your moral values?

(03-12-2016 02:05 PM)Banjo Wrote:  Hey Celestial Mind control.

I'll tell you what. I have never been in this sites Boxing Ring.

However I would like to debate you on the history and reasons for warfare throughout the ages.

Are you up to it?

Really not feeling the history vibes right now.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
04-12-2016, 04:43 AM
RE: You guys are some of the most stubborn, unyielding, and bitter people I've ever met.
Wow. Somebody got bent the fuck over. Laugh out load

[Image: ZF1ZJ4M.jpg]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes houseofcantor's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: