You guys are some of the most stubborn, unyielding, and bitter people I've ever met.
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01-12-2016, 01:49 PM
RE: You guys are some of the most stubborn, unyielding, and bitter people I've ever met.
(01-12-2016 01:33 PM)SitaSky Wrote:  
(01-12-2016 08:56 AM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  Love

unselfish loyal and benevolent concern for the good of another

warm attachment, enthusiasm, or devotion

Empathy, Compassion, and Love all have the same basic meaning. Would I say I love all sexually and intimately? Not at all, but that is not to say I do not love them, for love has many different meanings. If there is one thing you should know about me by now Sita, its that I am not limited to just one meaning of any one word. Wink

Can you really say you feel "warm attachment" to every person alive? Devotion even? Do you feel completely unselfish loyalty to every person?

That would make no sense to feel loyal to every person, who would you stand with in a fight? If you could stand with Carl Sagan or Richard Dawkins, would you stand in the middle? Since you are loyal to both of them? Clearly one of them has earned your loyalty and the other hasn't, you don't love both. You may respect Dawkins as a human but you don't "love" him.

Love, empathy and compassion do not have the same "basic" meanings, they are different words with different meanings, do not conflate love with empathy, those are two very different things and you know it.

I may feel empathy for a child rapist because they were raped as a child and were so traumatized that they felt this is normal and went on to commit the same crime but I certainly don't love them, they are unworthy of love.

Let me explain it simply, if you say "I love all cookies, I don't have a favorite, they're all great in their own way!" Now your cookie opinions are worthless. I would never go to you and ask "Hey, have you tried these cookies? Do you like them?" because you like all of them.

Your standards are so broad that you would love them just because they are cookies, they could have shards of glass and poison in them and that would be fine by you, you would gladly eat them, blood dripping out of your mouth with a smile on your face and proclaim "I love these cookies!"

I would side step the glass cookies and reach for the peanut butter cookies, since I love them and they are my faves and I would live to see another day.

Not to mention that he hasn't met every single person alive. I'd say it's just total wishy washy feel good bullshit to say you love everyone if you haven't even met them all.

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01-12-2016, 04:03 PM (This post was last modified: 01-12-2016 04:10 PM by Celestial_Wonder.)
RE: You guys are some of the most stubborn, unyielding, and bitter people I've ever met.
(01-12-2016 01:33 PM)SitaSky Wrote:  Can you really say you feel "warm attachment" to every person alive? Devotion even? Do you feel completely unselfish loyalty to every person?

That would make no sense to feel loyal to every person, who would you stand with in a fight? If you could stand with Carl Sagan or Richard Dawkins, would you stand in the middle? Since you are loyal to both of them? Clearly one of them has earned your loyalty and the other hasn't, you don't love both. You may respect Dawkins as a human but you don't "love" him.

Love, empathy and compassion do not have the same "basic" meanings, they are different words with different meanings, do not conflate love with empathy, those are two very different things and you know it.

I may feel empathy for a child rapist because they were raped as a child and were so traumatized that they felt this is normal and went on to commit the same crime but I certainly don't love them, they are unworthy of love.

Let me explain it simply, if you say "I love all cookies, I don't have a favorite, they're all great in their own way!" Now your cookie opinions are worthless. I would never go to you and ask "Hey, have you tried these cookies? Do you like them?" because you like all of them.

Your standards are so broad that you would love them just because they are cookies, they could have shards of glass and poison in them and that would be fine by you, you would gladly eat them, blood dripping out of your mouth with a smile on your face and proclaim "I love these cookies!"

I would side step the glass cookies and reach for the peanut butter cookies, since I love them and they are my faves and I would live to see another day.

Clearly you didn't read the part about me disowning people who commit heinous crimes. That also includes a list of people who have betrayed humanity for their own selfish gain, like corrupt politicians, or Richard Dawkins. I hate people who fuck with my species.

(01-12-2016 10:56 AM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  No one called him on the bullshit pity-line that the reason we were harsh with him was because we thought he was a Christian? Okay fine, I will.

No, we were mean to you because you spouted the same bullshit that Christians typically do.

I don't give a fuck if you're a Christian or not. Almost no one here does. Many of us are best friends with, married to, or in some other way close to Christians.

So let me repeat, slowly and carefully, so you get it:

IT'S THE PATRONIZING BULLSHIT THAT WAS FLOWING THROUGH YOUR KEYBOARD AND ONTO THIS FORUM that made us react to you like we did.

Yes, that includes this passive-aggressive "but I love everyone, and you were all so mean to me when I was just trying to be nice!" patronizing bullshit.

Take your guilt trip, pack it up in some nice hard-case luggage, and kindly shove it up your ass.

All that said, I rather like you and your crazy conspiracy theory nonsense... whether or not you're a Christian... at every moment you're not trying to patronize, misrepresent, or judge us. So alter your behavior and I think you'll find a much warmer reception from all of us.

I feel this is an oversimplification of myself. Especially the patronizing part.

Making it about me when its all about you. I can not help how you view me on an internet forum, there is no way for me to attach emotion to my words. So you are left to attach your own emotions to the words I write. This is the cause of a lot of misunderstanding of people, and combine this with the psychological behavior of people when they're on the internet compared to how they'll be when they're in person. Dare I say in person people are quite more... personable.

I just try to be as personable on the internet as I would if I were face to face with you. Call it patronizing if you wish, I'll call it trying to be real.

(01-12-2016 01:49 PM)Dark Wanderer Wrote:  Not to mention that he hasn't met every single person alive. I'd say it's just total wishy washy feel good bullshit to say you love everyone if you haven't even met them all.

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My proximity to you is at any one point no more than 12,450.5 miles. I'd say we're pretty close considering if I really wanted to I could visit you in less than 24 hours, providing you meet me at the airport.

So I may not have met you in person, but I am making contact with your very entity with this great piece of technology that we call the internet, therefore should I treat you any differently than I would as if we were to meet in person?
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01-12-2016, 04:24 PM
RE: You guys are some of the most stubborn, unyielding, and bitter people I've ever met.
(01-12-2016 04:03 PM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  ... people who have betrayed humanity for their own selfish gain, like corrupt politicians, or Richard Dawkins.

Please enlighten me as to when and how Dawkins has "betrayed humanity". I get that you don't like him, but "betrayed humanity" is just a little strong, don't you think?
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01-12-2016, 04:27 PM
RE: You guys are some of the most stubborn, unyielding, and bitter people I've ever met.
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01-12-2016, 04:30 PM
You guys are some of the most stubborn, unyielding, and bitter people I've ever met.
(01-12-2016 04:03 PM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  Clearly you didn't read the part about me disowning people who commit heinous crimes. That also includes a list of people who have betrayed humanity for their own selfish gain, like corrupt politicians, or Richard Dawkins. I hate people who fuck with my species.

Ok so you started saying you love all of humanity and now you "hate" anyone who fucks with humans including other humans? Hate again is a strong emotion that should be reserved for those that earn it, yes many criminals fall under that category but there is a huge difference between a murderer and an acclaimed evolutionary biologist you have disagreements with.

I still feel like you are missing the point and your OP was literally to tell us that even though we can be stubborn and bitter than you still "love" us, why should that matter to us? Your love is empty and worthless since it's not personal in any way, that is the problem but since you are now admitting to hating Richard Dawkins I have to say, it means even less now. He's not a criminal or a depraved maniac, he may not be my favorite atheist or someone I tend to quote or aspire to be like but he's not that bad, if he's your standard for someone who deserves hate than your standard for love is also unclear and questionable.

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01-12-2016, 04:34 PM
RE: You guys are some of the most stubborn, unyielding, and bitter people I've ever met.
(01-12-2016 04:24 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(01-12-2016 04:03 PM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  ... people who have betrayed humanity for their own selfish gain, like corrupt politicians, or Richard Dawkins.

Please enlighten me as to when and how Dawkins has "betrayed humanity". I get that you don't like him, but "betrayed humanity" is just a little strong, don't you think?

I don’t get this fascination with Dawkins. The only one who continuously brings him up in conversation is you CW, I’m pretty sure that most if us here, including me hold whatever he says with the same skepticism as that of anyone else.

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01-12-2016, 07:53 PM
RE: You guys are some of the most stubborn, unyielding, and bitter people I've ever met.
(01-12-2016 04:30 PM)SitaSky Wrote:  Ok so you started saying you love all of humanity and now you "hate" anyone who fucks with humans including other humans? Hate again is a strong emotion that should be reserved for those that earn it, yes many criminals fall under that category but there is a huge difference between a murderer and an acclaimed evolutionary biologist you have disagreements with.

I do not consider anyone who fucks with the human race to be part of humanity. I told you, I disown them. They're dead to me, and they died the moment they sold their souls to the dark whims of another or their own selfish desires.

Quote:I still feel like you are missing the point and your OP was literally to tell us that even though we can be stubborn and bitter than you still "love" us, why should that matter to us? Your love is empty and worthless since it's not personal in any way, that is the problem but since you are now admitting to hating Richard Dawkins I have to say, it means even less now. He's not a criminal or a depraved maniac, he may not be my favorite atheist or someone I tend to quote or aspire to be like but he's not that bad, if he's your standard for someone who deserves hate than your standard for love is also unclear and questionable.

Why does it matter to you? So long as it matters to me, I won't give up on you.

As for Richard Dawkins, one doesn't have to be a criminal or a depraved maniac to do something heinous. Just immoral. He deserves contempt because he spreads hatred and plays a part in the strategy of tension.

A man indeed so intelligent as he would know perfectly well the role he plays in the grand scheme of things. And it is not very hard to observe the propaganda campaign on both sides of the spectrum to know the part he plays in it.

(01-12-2016 04:24 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  Please enlighten me as to when and how Dawkins has "betrayed humanity". I get that you don't like him, but "betrayed humanity" is just a little strong, don't you think?

Being part of the propaganda campaign to drum up support for western intervention in the middle east qualifies as betraying humanity. For his services he has gained widespread media attention and the admiration of many atheists perhaps none here but. Many atheists do in fact share sentiments with him.

He is in fact like a corrupt politician, the politician may not be the one pulling the trigger, may not even be the one plotting the crime, but because he is corrupt he allows for these things to happen and even helps pave the way.

(01-12-2016 04:34 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  I don’t get this fascination with Dawkins. The only one who continuously brings him up in conversation is you CW, I’m pretty sure that most if us here, including me hold whatever he says with the same skepticism as that of anyone else.

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Sita brought him up.
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01-12-2016, 08:11 PM (This post was last modified: 01-12-2016 09:52 PM by WhiskeyDebates.)
ASHF
(01-12-2016 07:53 PM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  
(01-12-2016 04:30 PM)SitaSky Wrote:  Ok so you started saying you love all of humanity and now you "hate" anyone who fucks with humans including other humans? Hate again is a strong emotion that should be reserved for those that earn it, yes many criminals fall under that category but there is a huge difference between a murderer and an acclaimed evolutionary biologist you have disagreements with.

I do not consider anyone who fucks with the human race to be part of humanity. I told you, I disown them. They're dead to me, and they died the moment they sold their souls to the dark whims of another or their own selfish desires.

Quote:I still feel like you are missing the point and your OP was literally to tell us that even though we can be stubborn and bitter than you still "love" us, why should that matter to us? Your love is empty and worthless since it's not personal in any way, that is the problem but since you are now admitting to hating Richard Dawkins I have to say, it means even less now. He's not a criminal or a depraved maniac, he may not be my favorite atheist or someone I tend to quote or aspire to be like but he's not that bad, if he's your standard for someone who deserves hate than your standard for love is also unclear and questionable.

Why does it matter to you? So long as it matters to me, I won't give up on you.

As for Richard Dawkins, one doesn't have to be a criminal or a depraved maniac to do something heinous. Just immoral. He deserves contempt because he spreads hatred and plays a part in the strategy of tension.

A man indeed so intelligent as he would know perfectly well the role he plays in the grand scheme of things. And it is not very hard to observe the propaganda campaign on both sides of the spectrum to know the part he plays in it.

(01-12-2016 04:24 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  Please enlighten me as to when and how Dawkins has "betrayed humanity". I get that you don't like him, but "betrayed humanity" is just a little strong, don't you think?

Being part of the propaganda campaign to drum up support for western intervention in the middle east qualifies as betraying humanity. For his services he has gained widespread media attention and the admiration of many atheists perhaps none here but. Many atheists do in fact share sentiments with him.

He is in fact like a corrupt politician, the politician may not be the one pulling the trigger, may not even be the one plotting the crime, but because he is corrupt he allows for these things to happen and even helps pave the way.
Wanna vague all that up a bit more? Some of those sentences are getting dangerously close to being worth reading.

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01-12-2016, 08:54 PM
You guys are some of the most stubborn, unyielding, and bitter people I've ever met.
(01-12-2016 07:53 PM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  I do not consider anyone who fucks with the human race to be part of humanity. I told you, I disown them. They're dead to me, and they died the moment they sold their souls to the dark whims of another or their own selfish desires.

Actually you were the one who brought up Dawkins continuously in a different thread and made me realize you have some kind of hang up about him and that's why I asked you if you love all of humanity does that include him? Obviously not, even though I still don't understand why he's worthy of hate or being "disowned". Do you feel the same about Christopher Hitchers or Stephen Fry?

Why do you say some people are no longer human? What are they? Monsters? They're still human, you see humanity isn't all the great sometimes, it's quite imperfect which is why it's really silly to say "I love humanity!"

This is all so reminiscent of religion really, this whole idea that God will love you unless you sin then you are nothing to him, it doesn't matter if you are burning he will ignore it, that's what you get.

I may not love all of humanity but I acknowledge all of humanity so even if a bad person like a pedophile priest was burning in front of me I would douse them with water and get them to the hospital, then later I would make sure they go to prison, they're still human and worthy of some empathy and I can't just sit there while they suffer.

I'm not the bad person, they are, so yeah being the bigger and better person does mean respecting the life and existence of all humans, even the bad ones. You don't have to love them but just recognize they are human, in the very least. Disowning them and deciding they are not human isn't any better than what Dawkins does when he "spreads hate."

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01-12-2016, 08:55 PM
RE: You guys are some of the most stubborn, unyielding, and bitter people I've ever met.
I think CW might be confusing Dawkins with Hitchens.

I'll also add that this is a very silly thread.

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

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