You have the right to remain silent...
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06-05-2016, 09:08 PM
RE: You have the right to remain silent...
(06-05-2016 09:43 AM)SYZ Wrote:  The woman was being willfully obstructionist, and continued to act in a confrontational manner in response the the police's perfectly legitimate questions. She had obviously breached a traffic law, and was simply trying to give the officer a hard time. Worse, as an attorney and therefore an officer of the court, she should've known better than to carry on like a petulant grade-schooler caught chewing gum in class.

I would've arrested her for being 65 pounds overweight, if nothing else. Big Grin

How is not talking being "obstructionist" or "petulant"? And, what was legitimate about the question?

Are you trying to be contrary for the fuck of it or are you really this obtuse?

Shackle their minds when they're bent on the cross
When ignorance reigns, life is lost
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07-05-2016, 12:52 AM
RE: You have the right to remain silent...
Miranda applies to all "custodial" interrogations and a custodial interrogation occurs when a person is not free to leave, This was clearly a "custodial interrogation" and Miranda applies. It particularly applies to the question concerning why she thinks the officer stopped her. The cop is trying to get a confession out of her by asking that question. Be advised, friends, never ever tell a cop why you think he is detaining you. This is how that scenario plays out in court:

Cop: I asked him why he thought I had stopped him and he replied, "speeding."
Prosecutor: Did he hesitate at all before saying "speeding."
Cop: No.


There are actually 100 different ways the prosecutor can play with your statement that you believed you were stopped for speeding but the bottom line is it will not only be used against you, but in closing the prosecutor will tell the judge/jury that you knew you were speeding because you told the cop that is why he stopped you. At that point, you are toast. This is the oldest trick in the book to get at least a partial admission out of a defendant in a traffic stop.

There are cases that say you don't have a right to remain silent in a routine traffic stop. That is insane because cops always try to invade your 5th amendment right against self-incrimination and get an admission from you. If the dumb fucking judges who have written those opinions thought about it for a minute, they would realize that forcing a defendant to answer questions would, more often than not, force him to admit to a traffic offense.
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07-05-2016, 09:14 AM
RE: You have the right to remain silent...
(07-05-2016 12:52 AM)Black Eagle Wrote:  The cop is trying to get a confession out of her by asking that question. Be advised, friends, never ever tell a cop why you think he is detaining you...This is the oldest trick in the book to get at least a partial admission out of a defendant in a traffic stop.
Last time I was stopped by a cop, it was a fair... er, "cop."

Him: Do you know why I stopped you?

Me: Probly 'cause I missed that stop sign.

Him: Thank you for being honest. I'm just going to give you a warning.

If a cop stops you for a traffic violation, he's at least witnessed it himself, and probably has it on dashcam; he doesn't need a "confession." If he asks you if you know why you were stopped, he's signaling that you have a chance to cooperate, and cooperation has benefits.

Whatever. It's probably better to be uncooperative, thereby taking it completely out of the cop's discretion and netting yourself a ticket, or getting yourself arrested. It really is probably best to force your case as far into the legal process as it can possibly go. Yup, that makes the most sense.

Oh crap!
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07-05-2016, 09:55 AM
RE: You have the right to remain silent...
A lot of people believe jabeady's approach is right and with traffic stops it isn't a big deal unless your driving record is so bad you're likely to lose your license with the next ticket. That cooperative attitude doesn't work well when the cops are investigating a more serious crime and you are a "target" in the investigation. But, people's big mouths have made a lot of us defense lawyers rich.
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07-05-2016, 10:03 AM
RE: You have the right to remain silent...
Being nice to a cop has never gotten me out of trouble if I was guilty.
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07-05-2016, 10:08 AM
RE: You have the right to remain silent...
This is one of my favorite explanations about why you should keep your mouth shut ALL OF THE TIME. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc it's also entertaining. The cop who speaks after the law professor also says, "keep your mouth shut."
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07-05-2016, 10:28 AM
RE: You have the right to remain silent...
(07-05-2016 09:55 AM)Black Eagle Wrote:  A lot of people believe jabeady's approach is right and with traffic stops it isn't a big deal unless your driving record is so bad you're likely to lose your license with the next ticket.

If someone's driving record is that bad, I'd hate to be the cop that let them go, or the prosecutor that lost their case, (or the innocent person they take out). Conscience be damned, I'm talking about what the news media would do to me.

Quote:That cooperative attitude doesn't work well when the cops are investigating a more serious crime and you are a "target" in the investigation.

In that case, it's better to be as uncooperative as you can, and make it far more likely that you get hauled in. It's much better than just getting a ticket and being allowed to proceed. However, if you're already involved in an investigation, the police don't *want* you to "confess" to a traffic violation; they'll use anything they can as an excuse to haul you in. So, by being uncooperative, you're actually giving them exactly what they want.

Quote:But, people's big mouths have made a lot of us defense lawyers rich.

No, you got rich by giving out this kind of legal advice.

Oh crap!
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07-05-2016, 11:41 AM
RE: You have the right to remain silent...
OFFICER: Do you know why I pulled you over?

DRIVER: No, sir.







...how hard is that?

Don't let those gnomes and their illusions get you down. They're just gnomes and illusions.

--Jake the Dog, Adventure Time

Alouette, je te plumerai.
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07-05-2016, 12:06 PM
RE: You have the right to remain silent...
(05-05-2016 11:47 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  Further irony.
The officers arrested her and got pissy when she didn't answer their question (even though she doesn't have too) yet they wouldn't answer hers when she was being arrested.
Lolwut? Hypocritical much.

Oh America, why do you have some such retarded cops? Clearly these guys are fucking hyped up on power and got pissy because someone was refusing to give in to their bullying.
I hope they lose their jobs I really do. Fuck them.

edit: LOL oh fuck, I knew the "you have the right to remain silent.." was coming but it was still fucking hilarious.
edit2: OMG she's suing them, this is fantastic.

Bullying, my ass, Muffs. They pull her over for a minor traffic violation and she can't even interact with a cop? Its not grounds for an arrest, but it is common courtesy.

"IN THRUST WE TRUST"

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07-05-2016, 12:13 PM
RE: You have the right to remain silent...
(07-05-2016 09:14 AM)jabeady Wrote:  
(07-05-2016 12:52 AM)Black Eagle Wrote:  The cop is trying to get a confession out of her by asking that question. Be advised, friends, never ever tell a cop why you think he is detaining you...This is the oldest trick in the book to get at least a partial admission out of a defendant in a traffic stop.
Last time I was stopped by a cop, it was a fair... er, "cop."

Him: Do you know why I stopped you?

Me: Probly 'cause I missed that stop sign.

Him: Thank you for being honest. I'm just going to give you a warning.

If a cop stops you for a traffic violation, he's at least witnessed it himself, and probably has it on dashcam; he doesn't need a "confession." If he asks you if you know why you were stopped, he's signaling that you have a chance to cooperate, and cooperation has benefits.

Whatever. It's probably better to be uncooperative, thereby taking it completely out of the cop's discretion and netting yourself a ticket, or getting yourself arrested. It really is probably best to force your case as far into the legal process as it can possibly go. Yup, that makes the most sense.

Oh crap!

I think this misses the point completely. Sure, it's easier to just be polite and you're likely to get a better result if you are. Cops are humans too. But, so what? You have no obligation to be polite and being rude, or silent, does not mean they can pull you out of your car and arrest you. They may be less willing to cut you a break and they are more likely to fight you in court but what they can't do, legally, is, handcuff you, throw you in the back of the car and throw you in jail. It's not only an over the top reaction, it's illegal and an abuse of authority.

I'm always flabbergasted when people respond to these things with "well, if you had just done what the authority figure told you to do, regardless of reasonableness or legality, all would have been fine so it's your fault". If we the people don't stand up for our rights then we won't have any.

This woman could have just complied and been on her way. But, she didn't want to. That doesn't make her a criminal. It makes her a citizen. The police had no right to do what they did. None.

Shackle their minds when they're bent on the cross
When ignorance reigns, life is lost
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