You just can't apply reason to faith
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02-08-2013, 07:55 AM
You just can't apply reason to faith
My mom told me that the other day. And the way she worded it, it sounded like she was giving out the answer to all life's questions.

I don't know why we were talking about religion (she's a pretty devout catholic, as I used to be), but the bible came up and I pointed out a few passages in the scripture, and ended up pulling out my smartphone. I had downloaded a bible and bookmarked my "favourite" parts. So I proceeded to read a bit from it.

So she went on about the old testament being about a bunch of uncivilized jews and Paul being a fucking misogynist fucking jew (her words) and somehow ended up saying that you can't try to apply reason and logic to faith, because that's why it's faith. I had to bite my tongue to keep me from pointing out:

a) What?
b) Why not?
c) Why don't you worship Vishnu then? Or Zeus? Or The Lord of Light? Or the little green monkey that rests on you shoulder?
d) I don't ever want to hear you mock the creationists or my friend that believes in crystal healing and ghosts ever again.
e) You just came to the conclusion that the old testament is just the story of a bunch of uncivilized jews using reason.

Has anyone else ever encountered an argument like this? I'm curious as what else she might have said had I pushed the subject, but I'm pretty sure she would have taken it as an attack. I very much value my physical integrity.

Sidenote: My mom is, otherwise, a very smart person. Gotta love me some cognitive dissonance.

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02-08-2013, 08:06 AM
RE: You just can't apply reason to faith
By definition, theistic faith is delusion. It is in direct contrast to reason and logic.

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Poonjab
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02-08-2013, 08:07 AM
RE: You just can't apply reason to faith
I think I like your mum (mom).

I agree with her statement.

Thumbsup

ps. Not the fucking Jew part. I think Paul died a virgin.

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02-08-2013, 08:32 AM
RE: You just can't apply reason to faith
"Those are Christian dogmas, you can't understand that, it just is."

Classical answer I get when I ask too much and too far...

Smile

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02-08-2013, 08:48 AM
RE: You just can't apply reason to faith
"You just can't apply reason to faith."

My response: I agree. Wholeheartedly. Therefore, you cannot give me a good reason to adopt your faith. Once you try, you're applying reason to faith, which is itself unreasonable. Thanks for playing!
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02-08-2013, 09:17 AM
RE: You just can't apply reason to faith
(02-08-2013 08:48 AM)TwoCultSurvivor Wrote:  "You just can't apply reason to faith."

My response: I agree. Wholeheartedly. Therefore, you cannot give me a good reason to adopt your faith. Once you try, you're applying reason to faith, which is itself unreasonable. Thanks for playing!

Well, I tried applying reason to the faith I was brought up in and ended up here surrounded by heathens, so I get it.

I'm still half wishing I had pressed the issue a bit, though. Just to see what she'd say, since she's always rationalizing everything (else).

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02-08-2013, 04:06 PM
RE: You just can't apply reason to faith
(02-08-2013 07:55 AM)DancingSkeletons Wrote:  you can't try to apply reason and logic to faith, because that's why it's faith.

Faith requires the suspension of disbelief. So does fiction.

From Wikipedia: Suspension of disbelief or willing suspension of disbelief is a term coined in 1817 by the poet and aesthetic philosopher Samuel Taylor Coleridge, who suggested that if a writer could infuse a "human interest and a semblance of truth" into a fantastic tale, the reader would suspend judgment concerning the implausibility of the narrative. Suspension of disbelief often applies to fictional works of the action, comedy, fantasy, and horror genres. Cognitive estrangement in fiction involves using a person's ignorance or lack of knowledge to promote suspension of disbelief. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspension_of_disbelief

Good luck and keep thinking.http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/images/smilies/extra/smartass.gif
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07-08-2013, 05:23 AM
RE: You just can't apply reason to faith
The one redeeming qualities about Catholics is that they KNOW their beliefs are absurd. It's unfortunate that their cerebral cleansing allows them to believe it's an acceptable and mature way of thinking.

“One of the painful things about our time is that those who feel certainty are stupid,
and those with any imagination and understanding are filled with doubt and indecision.”

- Bertrand Russel
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07-08-2013, 07:09 AM
RE: You just can't apply reason to faith
On a positive note, you have to admit all the cognitive dissonance creates jobs for apologists and systematic theologians. That does help keep the unemployment rate down. Weeping

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein Certified Ancient Astronaut Theorist
Isaiah 45:7 "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things" (KJV)

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07-08-2013, 07:28 AM
RE: You just can't apply reason to faith
Your mom's logic sounds like the most recent troll on the forum in a way.

I'm beginning to wonder what theists really mean when they say these things. Because they clearly don't actually mean that you can't think about what is being said or what is in the bible (she clearly demonstrates she has reasoned portions of the bible to fit her worldview). I'm beginning to think it is nothing more than a meaningless dodge that theists use against atheists to try and end the conversation. And not a statement they put any actual weight on themselves.

Which makes it a brick wall. A verbal "finger in the ears" to those questioning their beliefs.

Evolve
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