You just can't apply reason to faith
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07-08-2013, 05:34 PM
RE: You just can't apply reason to faith
5 Trust in the Lord with all your heart
and lean not on your own understanding;
6 in all your ways submit to him,
and he will make your paths straight.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?sea...ersion=NIV

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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08-08-2013, 02:59 PM
RE: You just can't apply reason to faith
(07-08-2013 05:34 PM)Hafnof Wrote:  5 Trust in the Lord with all your heart
and lean not on your own understanding;
6 in all your ways submit to him,
and he will make your paths straight.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?sea...ersion=NIV

Prove the existence of "God" and THEN we'll talk. You and your credulous (gullible) ilk are proclaiming authority to interfere and regulate the lives and activities of OTHER people. If those activities are with consenting adults it's NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS.
The burden of proof is on YOU to demonstrate ANY claim of authority. YOU HAVE NONE. We are not required to believe you because you say so. Quoting scripture does not change the reality of evidence. When you have a litany of MEASURABLE and TESTABLE DATA, maybe there can be a conversation.
I reject the bible *BECAUSE* I read it. Rape, genocide, slavery, kidnapping, murder and human sacrifice are PROMOTED by this book. You can enable these crimes if you want to. As for me, I just recognize them for what they are. Uneducated, barbaric , bronze aged stupidity.

Science is dissecting the sacred cow.[Image: smartass.gif]
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08-08-2013, 03:08 PM
RE: You just can't apply reason to faith
Well....Paul was a misogynist. Thumbsup


[Image: mrhanky.jpg]

Wind's in the east, a mist coming in
Like something is brewing and about to begin
Can't put my finger on what lies in store
but I feel what's to happen has happened before...


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08-08-2013, 06:16 PM
RE: You just can't apply reason to faith
(08-08-2013 02:59 PM)NoSkyDaddy Wrote:  
(07-08-2013 05:34 PM)Hafnof Wrote:  5 Trust in the Lord with all your heart
and lean not on your own understanding;
6 in all your ways submit to him,
and he will make your paths straight.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?sea...ersion=NIV

Prove the existence of "God" and THEN we'll talk. You and your credulous (gullible) ilk are proclaiming authority to interfere and regulate the lives and activities of OTHER people. If those activities are with consenting adults it's NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS.
The burden of proof is on YOU to demonstrate ANY claim of authority. YOU HAVE NONE. We are not required to believe you because you say so. Quoting scripture does not change the reality of evidence. When you have a litany of MEASURABLE and TESTABLE DATA, maybe there can be a conversation.
I reject the bible *BECAUSE* I read it. Rape, genocide, slavery, kidnapping, murder and human sacrifice are PROMOTED by this book. You can enable these crimes if you want to. As for me, I just recognize them for what they are. Uneducated, barbaric , bronze aged stupidity.

I'm agreeing with you, but also highlighting the difference between yourself and your mother at this time. "I rejected the Bible because I read it" is worlds apart from "lean not on your own understanding". She's right in saying that you can't apply logic to that kind of faith, because that faith is rooted in a rejection of your own understanding. You have to accept your own understanding can be more reliable than the teachings of authority in order to exit that kind of faith. Logic won't do it because logic can only influence that most untrusted of things, the theist's own reason.

That reason must be suppressed because in Christianity the only thing that can send you to hell is disbelief. Questioning your beliefs is the difference between eternal paradise and eternal torment. The teaching of the church is to fear any rationality that could lead a person away from the church's teachings. The teaching of the church is to fear your own mind and your own reason.

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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09-08-2013, 04:26 PM
RE: You just can't apply reason to faith
(08-08-2013 06:16 PM)Hafnof Wrote:  I'm agreeing with you, but also highlighting the difference between yourself and your mother at this time. "I rejected the Bible because I read it" is worlds apart from "lean not on your own understanding". She's right in saying that you can't apply logic to that kind of faith, because that faith is rooted in a rejection of your own understanding. You have to accept your own understanding can be more reliable than the teachings of authority in order to exit that kind of faith. Logic won't do it because logic can only influence that most untrusted of things, the theist's own reason.

True. Faith is illogical and irrational by nature. Apparently faith is a hole in your head out of which your brain is leaking... on God's behalf.

Reason is the enemy of faith.
Martin Luther

Science is dissecting the sacred cow.[Image: smartass.gif]
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09-08-2013, 04:33 PM
RE: You just can't apply reason to faith
(09-08-2013 04:26 PM)NoSkyDaddy Wrote:  True. Faith is illogical and irrational by nature. Apparently faith is a hole in your head out of which your brain is leaking... on God's behalf.

Hafnof,
This comment is not meant to apply to you personally. I hope it didn't come off that way. I was using "your" in a general sense.

Science is dissecting the sacred cow.[Image: smartass.gif]
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09-08-2013, 07:06 PM
RE: You just can't apply reason to faith
I understood what you meant Wink

Here's a more complete quote from Martin Luther:
"Reason is the greatest enemy that faith has: it never comes to the aid of spiritual things, but--more frequently than not--struggles against the divine Word, treating with contempt all that emanates from God." Table Talk (1569), 353[1].

Although in the same book he also says:
"so it is with human reason, which strives not against faith, when enlightened, but rather furthers and advances it."[1]

[1] According to http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Martin_Luther

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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16-08-2013, 04:49 PM
RE: You just can't apply reason to faith
I suspend my disbelief if I watch Wrestling or movies or tv shows etc. I know they ain't real but I'll buy an hour or so of their time and allow myself to step out of my world and into theirs and hopefully enjoy the ride.

I also like coming back to reality afterwards to reflect on what I've just experienced.

Being a believer puts you in a constant state of suspension. No appreciation of the brief time you just spent outside of your life. No reflection and no way back. Like being in a perpetual alternative world where nothing is really real, it
Was all made by a ghost in the sky.

That's quite frightening really, and I'm pretty sure it would make a good horror film.

What alarms me the most is my 6 year old
Child understands the laws of nature and how the universe works better than people who wrote the bible. Yet the believer cannot see this, and that alarms me too.
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